paint-can-Tuning ;-)

[nrg19uk]

[/quote]

The bakerlite piece of sh... was designed to save some brain effort of the italian engineers And then 30 years Polish resistence tо make any rationalization. Actually it's all about money saving (to cut 1 new size nut and 1 washer and then put by 2 of them... hahaha).


  thats not really scientific is it lol i was waiting for someone to come up with a more logical answer lol

Back in the 70s-80s if those italian engineers had put a little effort in??

something like this maybe? lol

 

[DEYAN IYI]

Well... it was kind of joke, but in reality the car manufacturers do think that if they save 1 quid for a car it will be 5 000 000 for such a amount of units And when you make a cheep car ... plenty of compromises.

The "joke" about ricers... When in 1972 our beloved 126 come on world with 23hp on 4800rpm, Honda Z600 was making 36hp on 9000rpm... also out of 600cc, 2 cyl..   Abarth 695 makes 38hp/5400rpm out of 700cc. Honda had also disc breaks, power breaking, 5 speed gearbox... The interior looks like s supercar...   And in the end it was not only Honda.

No science in the bakelite "heart" or "Mickey mouse" (I like this German comparison), no atomization. Just "to be something there". In my opinion Soichiro Honda would rather prefer harakiri. "Rougher surface of the inlet" means not to be polished like the outlet. The mixture moves in waves in both directions and all the obstacles aren't good, also for the resonance in definite rpm (valid for the exhaust as well). That's why single port for a cylinder means better filling, cos they don't spoil their work each other. Even better one carb per cylinder - lower speed of air/fuel mixture means more power ("lower" in the context of the same amount of air passing trough different sized sections, for ex. two 28mm standard carbs over Panda 30 head will work on 2 times lower air speed and that's what the progressive 2x30mm Panda's carb makes when both throttles are opened). And more interesting are Variable length intake manifolds.

Kowalski's turbine is kind of science fiction Better put some proper carb with acceleration pump

In one word, trust the paint-can-tuning The Polish experience shows that a 20mm spacer beneath the carb improves the performance. It would be nice to combine em.

[nrg19uk]

I think something was lost in translation here. )




From what I understood is if you want performance buy a Honda 

[eben80]

This is similar to the intake port modification on this page:
http://www.forzafiat500.com/articles/?sa=view;article=2

That's quite an interesting article.

[Rusty's Uncle]

Christmas must be over as the Easter eggs and hot cross buns are in the shops 
So time to get back to playing with the "toys"
But first nrg what is that item you showed there ?
Deyan is there any theory behind the 2 cms spacer under the carb ? Are you saying that a spacer as well as a sleeved bakelite manifold would be good ?
So found a bit of time to do a bit of kettleing, no not school kids in Oxford Street but those bits from an electric kettle 
Grabbed the first bakelite carb mount I found in my garage. The inlet passage was not good as there was some moulding flashing as well as missalignment. Got to work with some files , sorted that then fitted the brass ferrules and soldered them together to form a complete tube with tiny flange at each end. So far so good 

[nrg19uk]

happy new year all





rusty its a kowalski turbine it sits between the carb and the head like a sorta turbo, adding the effects of turbulence atomising fuel and air for a better clean burn.

there are sceptics out there that say they dont work, other people who have them fitted say they get better fuel economy, more power and a nice sound.


here is a website with a very user friendly explanation on intake and exhaust system tuning

grab a coffee first and enjoy


http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/InExTuning.htm

The part about intake tract length is worth thinking about.

[messerschmitt owner]

Interestingly, I once had about fifteen percent of the surviving Honda Z600s in my carport (yep, I had three of them) and can testify to their 9000rpm red line. With a little tuning it is possible to get 12000rpm  out of a Z engine. The engine is a much better design than the air cooled Fiat engine, but it came from motorcycle technology, where engines were higher revving but albeit less torquey.

My 1959 Berkeley B95 produced 45bhp as standard from its 692cc engine - it has a decent amount of low down grunt due in part to its heavy crank and flywheel. Tuning for 55bhp was standard but 65-70bhp could be achieved (as in my car) if a racing mechanic was allowed near it (in the case of mine, an Ecurie Ecosse racing mechanic).

My smart roadster (turbocharged) left the factory with about 80bhp - it now has closer to 115bhp with nothing more than a remap and a few changes to the induction.

Anything that smooths the airflow into the carb and inlet manifold is a good thing.

[smallcox]

Happy new year all,
 Alfrons you started an interesting debate.

nrg19uk I'am one off those sceptics who believe these devices are, well, not worth the there own weight but do agree in requiring fine atomisation but there are other ways off doinig this without putting a restriction in the air path on the induction system. Interesting artical thought about induction and exhaust which you refere to as "intake tract lenghts.
I always believed the carb bolted straight to the cyclinder head is a bit like your lawnmower set up, It works but not power or fuel advance just a means to get the engine to work along with the exhaust bolted with no real lenght to the pipes to tune the engine for economy/power/refiness. A goal length inlet manifold of 4 to 5 inches would benifit power a econemy in my opion to enhance any ramming effect that can be gained this would also help with atomising suspended fuel if port size was restricted to a resonable size.
The artical on cyclinder head modifying shows all the common mistakes that often happen with so called power heads.
Hey Rusty time for a cup of tea, but you got to rebuild you kettle first. lol

[DEYAN IYI]

Hi everybody and HNY!!! Many wishes for health, smiles and nice 126 moments!!! Hope to see ya in Zvolen!!!

nrg19uk, sorry for my poor english, sometimes it's hard to be "Apache" I'll do my best

Thanks for the nice article! And let me correct you - it doesn't need coffee, but a beer box to read and reread...

Rusty, not much to say about the theory after this article, but if you ask why exactly 20mm in our case, I got no answer. Maybe there is no more room in the engine bay The "sleeved manifold" is 101% better than the original Mikey mouse. With the spacer is maybe better and less possible to be worse. What is the profit out of it, only dyno could say or if there is sensitive change in performance. I would try it if I play with the original carbie.  

About the Kowalski turbine... People enjoying it are probably this kind of guys that would never say that have bought something worthless Some of them run 140km/h .

 First of all this monkey works against the nature of our engine! Each cylinder provokes own turbulence. They are symmetric, so it means that if the swirling flow in cyl.1 turns clockwise in cyl.2 will be anticlockwise. I am not really sure, but before the valve must be also a swirling flow. So, between the carb and the valves there are two small tornados twisting in opposite directions. Maybe I am wrong, but anyway, if we accept that there is no swirling flow, then this ventilator helps the flow of cyl.1 and spoils the flow of cyl.2, cos passing trough the valve must change its direction.

On second place the benefits are really doubtful, and instead of praying for some tailwind for the turbine, better work on decent carb an exhaust.

On third place the life of this small miracle is about 10k km, then is possible to break in pieces. That's why it got that tea strainer in the bottom.    http://www.126fan.pl/www/turbinka.htm

When we are still with BPS (bakelit piece of something) aka Mikey mouse - another miracle that turns fuel in the tank

Odparownik - something like "evaporator".

Here you can take a look, but it's only in Polish: http://www.odparownik.za.pl






The fact that the author overlooked the problem that "paint-can-tuning" solves, makes me sceptic about it.

Kind regards!

[dajwid]

Mmmmm, it says the modified 'mickey' has been patented, tests in 2 very well known Polish magazines both reported the mod, worked.

I have asked for a price for postage to the Uk. Must be worth a look.

[dajwid]

The guy has sold out of the modded parts, (In fact seemed suprised there are 126 owners in the uk), I am waiting for reply about plans of his mod.

[fightingtorque]

just a few pence worth.....

That strainer you have in it will reduce airflow by a surprising amount.  As usual, I would refer you to David Vizard regarding the amount of flow lost by gauze filters.  Having said that, I also had to rebuild a 126 engine because something (a washer) went into one of the cylinders...........

On the single carb/ throttle body per cylinder versus a shared system, least restriction will tend to give highest peak power (= individual unit per cylinder) but when the systems are shared, you get some benefit from the inertia of the gas - when one cylinder stops drawing, the charge wants to keep going so has inertia as soon as the valve opens.  This definitely works on a 4 cylinder where there is always one cylinder on intake, and the result is improved torque in low and mid range.

On a two cylinder, you do not have an intake stroke always going on, so how much benefit you get, I don't know.   

We are working on some v-twin engines with a single throttle body and it is hard work because on a v-twin the cylces of the two cylinders are not symetrically opposed.  My impression is that it works ok on the parallel twin, although I haven't taken individual lambda measurements for each cylinder.

enough...............

[Funkin Go-nut]

While I was stripping everything down after my breakdown (see other thread)

I thought I would try this MOD.

I had an old model paint tin and the first problem I had was that it was reasonably difficult to cut it to size without damaging the tin, after a bit of searching I found an exact same width pice of tube and after measuring the bakelite spacer cut it to length with a hacksaw.

After cleaning off the sharp edges i discovered that the tube (even the paint pot) is actually too large for the hole, so I got some sand paper and wrapped it round a socket extension bar and used my home made round file to widen the hole. ( I kept frequently checking to make sure that the metal tube was a tight fit).

After sanding and fitting I then discovered that the tube wont fit if the head bolts are not at the right angle, so I tightened these the smallest of turns so the flat edges of the Nuts allowed the tube to fit.

Rather than replacing the washers I cut slots in the tube to fit over them so that it all now sits snug and tight. (this also ensures that the tube cannot drop down into the inlet)

This isn't a straight forward drop in and fit mod, it does need some fettling.

The result (when she runs) is a definite improvement with more noticible pull/low down torque, its not massive but its deffinitly there (as the say every littlie helps)

So if you are thinking of trying this mod the agro is probbably worth it...

Hope this helps someone...

 

[Alfons1972]

yes, that sounds good!

[ape20ff]

Hello.
I think that's the same idea.



Bye.