Bis - aircooled discussion (and some rust : ) )

[Gordan]

to be honest there are plusses and minusses for both.
I just wish I could afford to run both of them

I agree completely... 

oh, how in the world can a aircooled be faster than the bis? if you had the older 599cc engine im sure the difference was enormous and even the later 650, and the last 650 el engine (199 something till 2000 ) which was the strongest aircooled had 1 hp less than the BISmarck 

[Gordan]

found some xenon bulbs to hopefully make a few eyes bleed. Dunno but lights seem so much

hey i thought xenon kits were illegal in the EU, something about the car having lenses, automatic beam regulation and pressurized washers... not really sure since were not in the EU and can install pretty much anything on our cars and get thru a m.o.t. 

[126dave]

aircooled....well proven engine that was actually designed properly and up rated thro its looooooong production run..the end 652cc was producing sum 23+ bhp compared with the original 500 engind making sum 16bhp.....the whole car is based on the ultra reliable and PROVEN 500 R

bis, stop gap car before the cinq was availible, poorly designed engine cooling and head bolt pattern.....the buying public payed dearly for the short comings of this engine......the engine can barely survive in standard form...no room for tuning on this steam engine.....all the worst bits of 126 ownership with none of the good bits.....the most reliable things about bis's are the head gasket failiure and exhaust falling off....... they would have better going down the Giardinera route with the under floor mounted aircooled.........

bottom line is wether you bis guys like it or not, its not a reliable car....if your that bothered about load space....well, by a cinq.....

ive owned both...and several 500's.........so speak from experience.....sorry guys, its the facts.....

[Gordan]

hey no 1 said the bis was reliable, but with a couple of my-hands-are-greasy days, they can be good runners. my engine for example never gave me trouble, not ever... well untill now, but its my fault for messing about with it...
main problem i think (of all 126es) was the crappy gearbox of which i needed to replace 2!! (one bis and 1 aircooled)
this, for now is my experience and opinion...

[126dave]

i beg to differ on the gearbox, its not crappy at all.....its that modern drivers dont know how to use it,its basicly 1950's designed,and boxes aint like that anymore.... how many times do you see on forums peeps moaning about the crunch as they smash into first coming to a halt?...i would also hazzard a guess that all 'boxes in used 126's have been abused before we get them..............i would agree that they should not have added syncro to the top three gears tho....it was stronger as a full crash box.....also i might add....most people use the wrong oil in them as well...........(should be 20/50)

dont get me wrong Gordon, i do like the Bis, the concept was great, its just the Lancia engine was not fully developed before production...........shame really...its a torquey little thing when its running on petrol and air and not water and air....

[Gordan]

yes i see what you mean concerning the first gear, the 2nd box i bought had a really bad 1st gear, but my original one was perfect, yet it shook like mad when starting in 1st, ended up to be a loose screw, seems to me that the pole which made it wasnt all that sober

[bis13]

ha ha but you didnt mention grinding to a halt at the roadside, all your frozen shopping defrosting , having to leave the car because theres no mobile phone coverage and on returning found that your rear tailgate has been opened and your new tv has gone awol, then some git has also gone and stole your wheels for his off road donkey cart! but then again you can sit and listen to your radio....oops they took that as well then the recovery turn up and charge you a mint to get home, thats real comfort. [-/ 

[Gordan]

 

i think il just buy myself a Golf...

[Darrell]

to be honest there are plusses and minusses for both.
I just wish I could afford to run both of them

I agree completely... 

oh, how in the world can a aircooled be faster than the bis? if you had the older 599cc engine im sure the difference was enormous and even the later 650, and the last 650 el engine (199 something till 2000 ) which was the strongest aircooled had 1 hp less than the BISmarck 

Don't ask me how it is true but on a long uphill the air cooled does better than the BIS did.
The BIS was faster...blimey alot faster! The Air cooled will only be happy at about 60..maybe that is just a confidence thing but the BIS would happily sit at 80mph.

What attracted me to the air cooled was the ability to upgrade stuff which is not available for the BIS which is a pity.

Although the BIS was said to be unreliable, I found mine to be very reliable. But then I had taken the thermostat out and thrown it away. I then filled it with 100% coolant, to hell with what they say about 50% being more effective. I figured I'd rather go 100% so as to make sure there is no corrosion inside the engine.

Part of the problems with BISes I think were previous owners and they were expected to perform like modern vehicles.

I mean a modern vehicle..most people seem to only service the car if it fails the emissions test at MOT!

A BIS needs a little more tlc I think you will agree.

I was at a garage the other day, a young mechanic stared into the engine in amazement. He couldn't comprehend the concept of the engine nor could he work out the layout. I pointed out the spark plugs but because he couldnt see them, I think he still didnt get it. When I mentioned points he looked equally lost!

My first fiat ever and first car was a fiat 500 giardinera. Brilliant little car with an amazingly long sunroof. When you fill it with young 20 year olds you can imagine, bikinis ect were in order

However I was young, impatient, inexperienced, could have done with a self healing car really but my exhaust kept falling off, the sump fell off on one occasion leaving a trail of oil. The fan cowling rattled itself to bits....it had it's issues.

Mainly due to me.

[bis13]

for the record i had 92 mph out of my bis 13 way faster than my aircoolers but it was so unreliable and ran the risk of blowing the gasket everytime i ragged it. my aircoolers are far more reliable however they are so spartan my polski has two seats and thats the interior done! my fsm is about as comfortable as they got having electric ignition and a rear heated windscreen! all in all the are very different but the same fun only you tend to have more fun fixing a bis... happy new year to all of you 126ers

[Gordan]

Yes, there are hardly any performance upgrades for the bis, only sports exhausts ive seen were home built...

as for that aircooled uphill speeding, i think it has a different gear ratio than the bis, so its "stronger" but slover at top speeds... i think... 

[bis13]

i think il just buy myself a Golf...

i had one of those and made room for the fiats lol,

[bis13]

gordan i saw this and thought of you!!

[Gordan]

Loool  now thats a little too much dont you think? i love a gadget here and then, but this is a little distasteful...

p.s. bet he doesnt have a massage seat,,,  xmas1 </4

[nrg19uk]

i think il just buy myself a Golf...

i had one of those and made room for the fiats lol,

wow thats a beauty!!! loving the original rims aswell