Author Topic: Fiat 126 BiS  (Read 12570 times)

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DeVilleChris

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2015, 06:35:31 PM »
My 126 was my first car, when I was 17 it cost me £2400 to insure it fully comp, third party was more at the time. Now I'm 21, it costs me £250 to insure it and thats with driving other classics and agreed value etc..

Its all age based, my brother has the same issue, he has a 1981 DeVille but he cant insure it so will be selling it for something else.
1979 Fiat 126 DeVille
1979 Fiat 900T Amigo

jkwinning

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2015, 07:55:11 PM »
i wish i could keep it to be totally honest but its better for me financially to sell it and get something else as money from it will pay for most of my insurance. i even checked my mum on it and she has no claims with being on dads insurance (it was easier and cheaper) and she has quotes only a few hundred below mine.

it will be a shame to see it go but maybe in the future when insurance is nothing i could find another one.

drcdb15

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2015, 01:02:12 AM »
There seem to be some misconceptions regarding different types of insurance cover in these comments. The minimum legal requirement, usually called Road Traffic Act cover, is actually cover for third parties' losses. The first party is you, the driver. The second party is your insurer. The third party is everyone else who might have a claim for any losses you cause them.

So any passenger who might get hurt or any person whose house or car you crash into will get reimbursed by your insurer regardless of who causes the accident. Even if they wanted to sue you, you'd be protected. It is precisely to protect the position of these innocent third parties that the law requires this minimum level of insurance. The real menace on our roads is, you may have noticed, not drivers with only RTA cover but those who are completely uninsured. And no-one on here I hope is suggesting THAT as a strategy.

The assertion that your own insurer will seek to recoup his costs from you is simply wrong. The whole point of insurance is that you are NOT liable in law for the insured risks. What you are buying with your premium (apart from the insurance company chairman's fancy Merc) is a warranty from the insurer that he will assume the risk. The ONLY way you would face having to pay these costs yourself is if your insurance company went bust and stopped trading. And even then I think I am right in saying there is an underwriting structure in place in the UK that provides a second level back-up for this event, not least because this is required as a consequence of the legal requirement for RTA insurance. In other words, if your insurer goes bust you will have residual statutory protection of at least RTA level much like the government now provides a safety net for your savings if your bank goes bust.

The next level up is commonly called "third party" insurance. Well, that too is a misnomer, because RTA cover is the "real" third party cover. What colloquially is called "Third Party" is generally RTA cover plus a couple of extras, usually cover for theft and fire, and since a car fire is almost always damage beyond repair, both of these are in effect total loss events. I appreciate that these days for many people "Third Party, Fire & Theft" to give it its full name is usually, paradoxically, more expensive than fully comprehensive cover, but that's just a question of supply and demand in the market place.

The fact remains, logically, that TPFT cover is the optimum cover, since it covers the minimum legal requirement and the total loss event that most people will not be able to afford to self-insure. That is, if someone steals your entire car, you are unlikely to be able to afford to replace it immediately out of your current cash in hand.

The top level, Comprehensive cover, doesn't give you any additional cover in respect of RTA or fire or theft that TPFT cover gives. What it *does* do is protect you against your own carelessness or negligence. It's no different in principle to accidental damage cover on your household insurance.

Now tell me this - when you spill the apocryphal paint while decorating your lounge and ruin the carpet, do you make an insurance claim, or do you just stump up and replace the carpet yourself? And if you do claim, what happens to your premium the following year?

If you have fully comp and you back into the gatepost, do you *really* make a claim? For repairs to your little 126? If you've got a brand new £50 grand Range Rover and you prang it through your own ineptitude, sure it makes sense to claim. But a 126?

A similar question - how many of you take your 126 to a Fiat main dealer to get it serviced? You'd take your brand new Range Rover to a main dealer, so why not your 30 year old Fiat?

The reality is that tens of millions of people get scrapes on their cars every year from all manner of causes, and never even notify their insurers, because the hassle is immense and all it really achieves is an increase in premium the next year.

So in reality, what extra cover is Comprehensive insurance providing that you are ever likely to use? The ONLY reason I and millions of others have Comprehensive is that it is the cheapest option. Large parts of the cover provided are totally irrelevant and will never be needed.

As for the risk of accidents, insurance companies and the media love to scare us with horror stories and skewed presentations of the statistics, but the simple everyday experience is that every day tens of millions of car journeys are made, whilst the number of crashes is just a few hundred.

It's true that a young and inexperienced driver is more likely to crash than an experienced one, but what exactly does that mean? If an experienced driver has a probability of crashing of 1%, and the young driver of 2%, yes, shock horror sensation, the young driver is TWICE the risk. But the reality is still that for all drivers there is a 98% probability of not crashing at all.

If you want to talk statistics, the real statistic is that none of you is likely to crash - EVER. "Likely" means greater than 50% probability. How many crashes do you know about? How many of your family or friends or neighbours have crashed? How often? Every year? Every week? Every trip?

If the insurance companies were telling the truth, our roads would be littered with crashed cars so much we wouldn't be able to move. The truth is that most people have no more than 4 or 5 crash incidents in their entire driving lives of 40 years and more. And that's typically about 500,000 miles.

If you want to judge probabilities in the proper perspective, have a look at this. These are the CAR INSURANCE INDUSTRY'S OWN DATA:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2011/07/27/how-many-times-will-you-crash-your-car/

Get fully comp insurance by all means, but do it understanding that you are doing it because it's cheapest, not because it's providing you with something you will ever actually need. Unless of course you have a flashy brand new Range Rover and very narrow gateposts...

Xylaquin

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2015, 04:15:18 AM »
doesn't fully comp give cover you medically?

alastairq

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2015, 07:41:27 AM »
I wish the statistics were as simple as that!

Statistics apart, I know from personal experience [I work with 'young & inexperienced ' drivers full time for many years.] that young new drivers are vastly more likely to be involved in damage-creating collisions that older [but equally less experienced] drivers.

Where-I-work, we have a department where part of the training involves these young drivers being unaccompanied by skilled instructors.......the damage ratio in that particular area is very much higher than damages in other departments.....

Where-I-work, the current 'record', for a new driver [19 years old, so nearly a pensioner].....with their new car, is 600 metres.  That is, 600 mtrs from being handed the keys to their brand new Vauxhall Corsa, to driving off proudly down the road, to putting it into a ditch on its roof.

This sort of event occurs regularly.

Given the huge numbers f individuals associated with where-I-work, that number of crash 'n burn events is too high to be ignored.

Training isn't the issue.....youthful attitude is. it cannot be helped....and young drivers in general pay through the nose as a result. It has always been thus.

As for Insurers recovering their losses due to Road Traffic Acts cover, that they do not, or cannot do so is misleading.

They do indeed, recover their losses to third parties from the policyholder.  Especially if those liabilities are excessive.

This fact is made plain to any proposer when applying for Road Traffic Acts cover [which is the barest minimum liability towards 3rd parties......any further liability is pursued against the 1st party. That is, you?]

Whether as an individual one makes a claim for damage to one's own property, if caused by you...is irrelevant....and has much more to do with excesses, NCD and future premiums.

Road Traffic Acts provides the bare minimum liability towards others.

Third party provides a lot more liability towards others, and to an extent, you [mostly medical]. Third party, fire & theft does the same, but includes cover for the two main causes of automotive loss.

Fully comp covers your losses as well as the other party's.....it is often cheaper or as cheap, as TPFT, as it is easier to administer...and the vast majority of those driving out there, have little or no interest in the car they are driving..the licence is but a glorified personal travel pass to them.....so fully comp cover is ideal.

Those Of us with 'more idea', etc [i assume, most if not all on here?]... can go to a broker who will be able to hunt about for better deals........

Go to a whole-of-market broker, rather than a 'tied' broker

jkwinning

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2015, 08:25:51 AM »
I think we can all agree though that this thread got off track became more about insurance than a car for sale.

alastairq

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2015, 10:34:59 AM »
I don't think the thread has strayed too far....after all, the OP said the reason for selling was, difficulty in getting affordable insurance?

All the rest of us seem to be doing is addressing the issue so the vehicle doesn't have to be 'sold'......and the  world potentially losing another 126 enthusiast?

Maybe, however, the thread should be moved to another sub-heading?  {after all, was a price mentioned?]

DannyPancho

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2015, 02:17:33 PM »
Im 18 and have been looking just the same, try classic car insurance, i had a quote for a 126 air cooled for £800 a year if im correct :P so please try classic, the car is worth the short wait!
Fiat 126 DeVille

jkwinning

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2015, 02:34:21 PM »
Any help on who to get a quote with? Ive already tried quotezone and they wouldnt give me one as im to high risk and classicline wouldnt give me one because of the specialist nature.

drcdb15

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2015, 04:13:23 PM »
doesn't fully comp give cover you medically?
Some policies may offer this, but in the overall scheme of things, in the UK you already have medical cover that you pay for. It's called National Insurance. So to pay for it again (all else equal of course, which in practice it isn't) in your motor insurance is not commercially sensible. Again, it's part of the highly touted "benefits" that in practice isn't really much of a benefit at all. It's a good excuse to jack up the premium though...

drcdb15

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2015, 04:24:23 PM »
Any help on who to get a quote with? Ive already tried quotezone and they wouldnt give me one as im to high risk and classicline wouldnt give me one because of the specialist nature.
I gave you a list in the link earlier. Also add in Lancaster. And you WILL need to talk on the phone to the brokers. Many people are extremely uncomfortable talking on the phone, especially when it comes to haggling about money and prices, for a variety of reasons. If you are amongst them, then you will need to enlist help from someone who is prepared to talk on your behalf. You will have to be present as the broker may well wish to confirm a) that you exist, b) you are who you claim to be, and c) you consent to the person making the call speaking for you. But your helper can then do the main part of the talking. It is helpful in this situation to have all your standard details (age, address, when you passed your test, what car is it etc) clearly written out so the helper can see at a glance all the details (you love and know your car, they may not!), and to have the phone on speaker if it's available, so you can hear the conversation as it goes along, and the helper then doesn't have to keep repeating questions to you.

DannyPancho

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2015, 04:34:24 PM »
Good ol' http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/classic it should give a good quote! Unless your expecting to leave the car in an unlocked public parking lot 7 miles from home...   :P ;D
Fiat 126 DeVille

drcdb15

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2015, 05:44:04 PM »
As for Insurers recovering their losses due to Road Traffic Acts cover, that they do not, or cannot do so is misleading.

They do indeed, recover their losses to third parties from the policyholder.  Especially if those liabilities are excessive.

This fact is made plain to any proposer when applying for Road Traffic Acts cover [which is the barest minimum liability towards 3rd parties......any further liability is pursued against the 1st party. That is, you?]


I think Alastair we are talking at cross purposes here. What I said is that your own insurance whatever the type will cover you for your liability to a third party's loss caused by your own fault.

True, that protection is not infinite, but generally it is pretty high. The statutory requirement (RTA 1988 S 145) is £1million, and most policies will offer far more than this - £3M, £5M and I've even seen £10M. These levels are way above any reasonable claim even for death. Very few claims ever breach £100K, never mind millions.

Your OWN insurance company will not pursue you for reimbursement (indeed to do so has no basis in law) UNLESS it has already voided your policy for some reason (typically some fraud in your application) and between when the policy started and the time it is voided there has already been some accident and consequent third party claim. But in these circumstances you, the policy holder, has been fraudulent - that is, YOU broke the contract terms first, by making some false or incomplete declaration!  I am presuming this is NOT our typical 126 Club member!

The only other time you might be exposed is where the third party's insurer pursues a claim that EXCEEDS the limit of your cover. In other words, if your cover is limited to (say) £1 million, and the claim is for, say, £1.5M, THEN the third party (or his insurer) could pursue you for the balance of £500K.

This is a theoretical possibility, but in practice I am struggling to envisage any scenario where a 126 (or even ANY car, come to that) could be driven in *any* way so as to cause over £1 MILLION pounds' worth of damage. You'd have to do something really crazy, like drive at 60 mph straight into a group of children and kill them all to get anywhere near this sort of level, and in that scenario you'd be facing much more serious charges than those on your wallet.

(On reflection, you *might* get close to these levels of damage if you went on a collision spree around Knightsbridge when the rich playboys are cruisin' in their Lambos...).

But seriously, the probability of any insurance firm pursing any INSURED 126 driver for uninsured losses in the UK is vanishingly small.

In fact, in the UK the government considers a mere £500,000 sufficient for anyone to self-insure. So, sell your house in the south-east, put £500K in the government bank, and away you go, no more hassle with insurance firms. It's covered in Section 144 of The Road Traffic Act 1988:

<<< 144 Exceptions from requirement of third-party insurance or security.

(1)Section 143 of this Act does not apply to a vehicle owned by a person who has deposited and keeps deposited with the Accountant General of the [F3Senior Courts] the sum of [F4£500,000], at a time when the vehicle is being driven under the owner’s control. >>>

Don't quote me, but I wouldn't mind betting the likes of Alan Sugar, Rowan Atkinson, Clarkson and Chris Evans self-insure.






DannyPancho

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2015, 10:07:00 AM »
I think we can all agree though that this thread got off track became more about insurance than a car for sale.
Because we dont want you to lose a great car after all that work you put in  :D
Fiat 126 DeVille

Neil

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Re: Fiat 126 BiS
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2015, 02:06:21 PM »
Do you have to insure your 126 now? Looks like it needs a bit of finishing off and if you can delay putting it on the road until you are another year older, your insurance will be lower. I'm only a couple of miles from you (in Bodelwyddan) and I'm restoring a BIS with my son who is very handy with spanners, if we could help you in any way - please get in touch via a PM. You've done loads of work on your car, too much to walk away from now. Remember that any car will be very expensive to insure for the first year or two, then prices start to fall.
Hope this helps.