Author Topic: 3 Holes or 2?  (Read 5975 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bambino126

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • Karma: 3
  • Location: Staines UK
3 Holes or 2?
« on: December 07, 2015, 08:43:18 PM »
Got my sump off at the moment to change the sump gasket to cure yet another leak, and I've noticed that the Conrods have a lot of lateral play on them on the crankshaft, so I'm thinking that I might as well change the big end bearing shells whilst I've got everything in bits at the moment.

There seems to be 2 types available, one with 3 drillings and one with 2.
Both say they are suitable for the BIS.
The standard ones that are on my car have 2 holes so are the 3 hole type an upgrade of some sort, an improvement to reduce wear, or are they just for a different version of the car?
Which should i get?

Bambino126

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • Karma: 3
  • Location: Staines UK
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2015, 10:11:11 PM »
Taken them out now.

They don't look very good to me, but I'm no expert.


Bambino126

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • Karma: 3
  • Location: Staines UK
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2015, 10:14:01 PM »

Incidentally, this nail fell out of the sump when I took it off, where does it come from?

I can't see it on the Fiat exploded diagram of the sump parts.


Piotross

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 346
  • Karma: 7
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2015, 10:17:36 PM »
ohohohoh nice con rods bearings :) what mileage has engine ? change them quickly :)

Bambino126

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • Karma: 3
  • Location: Staines UK
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2015, 10:26:48 PM »
So shall I get the same type, with 2 holes?

The engine has 55,000 miles (88,000km), but the last owner thought oil changes were a waste of time!

ChrisRLewis

  • Administrator
  • Super Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1723
  • Karma: 25
    • Club126uk
  • Location: Swansea, UK
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2015, 10:29:05 PM »
Could that "nail" be the fuel pump rod?
If you have the option stick with what you have i.e 2 hole version, but I don't think it matters..
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 10:43:39 PM by ChrisRLewis »

Piotross

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 346
  • Karma: 7
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2015, 10:31:26 PM »
Yes, with 2 holes.

Bambino126

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • Karma: 3
  • Location: Staines UK
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2015, 11:02:34 PM »
Cheers guys  ;)

1973/126

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1753
  • Karma: 23
  • Location: Tunbridge Wells
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2015, 09:40:08 AM »
 That bearing doens`t look too good at all. Make sure you also check the cranks as that could be the reason why you keep having this oil leak problems.
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

Bambino126

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • Karma: 3
  • Location: Staines UK
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2015, 01:27:49 PM »
I changed the rear crankshaft main bearing last time the engine was out to look for leaks.
Gonna do the front crankshaft main bearing now as well for the sake of completeness. Then (along with the big-end bearings) all 4 bearings are new.

But its a bit like opening Pandora's box... While I've got the sump off I'm having a little look at the Oil pump....looks bad.
The strainer was all bunged up with little hard black crud lumps. The long shaft that goes through to the water pump and the cog-wheel that drives it is all worn. According to the Fiat manual you measure the thickness of the shaft in 3 places with a micrometer - done that and its worn below Fiat's allowable tolerance in each place.
Then inside the oil pump there is a sort of arrangement where a 4 pointed star rotates inside a 5 pointed star. Well the 4 points are all damaged, with deep grooves, wear, and chips of metal missing.
On the 5 point star: the top flat side has a huge circular groove cut in it by something and a groove of the same shape is cut into the strainer housing where it bolts to the "5-star".
If you lift out the 5-star ring, you find that a bad grooved rut has been cut into the sump by something getting trapped between the 5 star ring and the sump.
Turning the sump the upside down to the waterpump side, it looks as though the waterpump has exploded in the past and been replaced. A big hunk of "liquid metal" type stuff has been added to the outside of the sump to repair a big hole in it where presumably the old impellor made a bid for freedom.
Don't want to dismantle any more parts its too depressing! :cry:

1973/126

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1753
  • Karma: 23
  • Location: Tunbridge Wells
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2015, 08:17:35 AM »
 Well it doesn`t sound too good with your engine.
 I would start from square one a build up a new engine.
 I have a spare low mileage block here which I only need the crank from. The problem is I have sold few bits of it already, but i`ll have a look at it today and see what`s there.
 If it helps you out, you can have it really cheap.
 
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

gammakeith

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
  • Karma: 4
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2015, 07:14:55 AM »
My (complete) spare BIS engine is stripped for inspection and bore/crank/pump shaft appear fine though shells are scrap and it too is badly gunked up from too few oil changes.  Sounds like it might be a better basis for a rebuild than yours?  Please get in touch if you want to deal :-)

Keith

Bambino126

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • Karma: 3
  • Location: Staines UK
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2015, 01:00:26 AM »
Thank you, both of you, for kindly offering me engines/parts to help me out, but I've already ordered a load of parts to sort out the problems. The crank is within spec, and the cylinder bores look good so I'm just going to repair the bottom end and that will sort me out for a while.

I'll put up some photos tomorrow to show the progress  ;)

gammakeith

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
  • Karma: 4
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2015, 08:11:07 AM »
Good luck!  Make sure all those oil ways in crank etc are really well cleared through  :D 

Keith

Bambino126

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • Karma: 3
  • Location: Staines UK
Re: 3 Holes or 2?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2015, 03:59:37 PM »