Clutch Change Help

[Wiz]

Hi all,  

I'm new to Fiat's, and after 4 weeks of trouble free, grin filled motoring, my new (to me) Fiat 126 1986 air cooled car's having problems.  

It has always grated a little going into first, especially when not stationary (i.e. when slowing down to a junction) but just yesterday it absolutely refuses to go into first or second without just slamming it into gear.  Not good.

Now I know bikes, not cars, but this seems to me to be the clutch that's gone.  So, my questions are:

* How do I find this out for sure, and how do I fix it?  
*  If you think it is the clutch, how big a job is it? Engine out?  How hard is this?
* Where can I get the parts I'll need, and how do I know what parts I'll need?
* Finally, a cheeky ask, but does anyone know the web address of web b-based manual I can look at, or have a scanned version they could mail me?

Cheers in advance folks,

Wiz

[126dave]

oh dear oh dear,126 or 500 gearboxes do not like being put into first or rverse will moving,(you can do the former if you are deft at double d clutching).....it sounds like you have destroyed your first gear  :sad: ,youll be needing a rebuild or a second hand box

[Bruce]

clutch is easy to change, but i don't think your problem is the clutch, it sounds like your lack of mechanical sympathy has serverly damaged your gear box. there is no syncromesh on first and reverse, in theory you should be able to change into first while moving by double declutching, but i never managed to do this successfully, in practice i found the best way is to wait untill stationary before selecting firsst gear, if the worst comes to the worse it is possible to pull away in 2nd and push the car backwards, but this will have to be sorted before the MOT test. I don't think it  is possible to buy the parts to repair the box anymore so your best bet is a second hand box. appentrly either version will fit, check the forums for info on this.

When i was fitter i managed to rebuild the box in my deville when it went but i had to get a new box fitted to my bis.

[ChrisRLewis]

Sounds like a clutch repacement required, get a clutch kit 3 piece should be around £40 motor factors or ebay?
Try adjusting the clutch cable first but it does sound like a clutch replacement will be required.
I will mail you some pdf instructions later.
C
 

[Bruce]

I doubt very much if its the clutch, unless you cant select 2nd 3rd and 4th, if this is the case the clutch is more than likely OK and it is just the cable that needs repalcing or adjusting, when the clutch fails the car will not move. and you will not have any problem selecting gears.

[fiatfsm]

four weeks of forcing a non syncro gear will have almost certainly destroyed that gear. you now say you need to slam it in, I am sure it is beyond saving, you need either a new 1st gear or a secondhand box, whatever you do though you must never ever put a 126 into 1st gear on the move! many 126 boxes have been ruined tis way by unwary owners, youre not the first and wont be the last!

[Chris Lakin]

thats the 1st rule of 126ing!  

mine has gone ive been driving mine on 2md, not once had i ever crunched mine into 1st, and never even double declutched into it, i just used 2nd

Chris

[126dave]

Chris,when you have a second hand 126,you have to assume that the previous owner has abused the 'box,they all do,people nowadays are not used to late '40's/early '50's gearboxes...............first thing i did when i got all mine was to drain the box oil,all full of chips and ''grey'' matter........aircooled in particuler,only 21,000 on the clock,gear box oil like grey sludge,luckily with fresh oil (duckhams classic 20/50)and SYMPATHETIC use it seems fine..........so............take off in second when you can,a clutch is cheaper and easier to replace...............(strangly that is the same with WW2 Jeeps).........clutch even easier (and quicker)to do than upload pics to this site!......

[Bruce]

just a bit of advice, use a bis driven plate for the clutch clutch even in the aircooled because is has springs on the plate unlike the aircooled one which has none, these springs offer a little give and allow a smoother uptake of the drive and less strain on the box.

[PaulB]

Things may not be as bad as this gloomy bunch predict. You can see the clutch if you remove the inspection plate under the car between the engine and the gear box. Use a torch and small mirror to have a look at the wear. See haynes for details. As has been said, a worn clutch usually slips. A badly adjusted one makes gear changing hard.

As has been suggested, before pulling the car to bits, try resetting the clutch and gear lever, and check the gearbox mounts are okay and the linkage between the gearbox and gear lever. These are all easy and free to do. If you need to know how, post again or check Haynes.

If its not clutch adjustment or gear lever, then get the gearbox out (easiest by removing engine). Then you can gave a proper look at the clutch and first gear. You can see first and reverse gears by removing the lid on the gear box. Knackered gears are obvious to see and can be replaced with new parts.

The reason I am being more optimistic is that you are having trouble with first and second, and getting them in rather than keeping them in (shot gears usually 'pop out'. So its worth trying adjustment first as its cheaper, and quicker and less trauma. If you've just been getting the odd crunch then 1st may be okay. These cars survived years of total abuse (or rather lack of care) - more than most cars.

You shouldn't need first if the car is moving as second still has loads of torque. 1st is really only for getting the car rolling, unlike modern cars. I don't think double de-clutching works well on first - you can change into first okay with regular declutching but only at the right revs  - I do it when slowing down to stop at lights, ready to burn off the spottys in bradford - but as with any non-synchro gears - get the timing wrong and the gear is stripped.  

[ChrisRLewis]

wiz check your pm's for the manual
C
 

[Wiz]

Well, what can I say except a big thanks to all who've responded.  As the majority say, it sounds pretty terminal, but I will go in with fingers crossed and with the help of the manual link 'cars' mailed me, to find out just how bad it is.

Will update you all in a week or so when I get 10 minutes to have a look at the wee beastie and get back to a PC.

Knowing my luck, we can expect this one to run and run.....

All the best to everyone. Have a great Bank Holiday weekend.

Wiz

[Wiz]

...was a frayed clutch cable, of all things!  Thank goodness for that.  It seems all the odd behaviour was from the remaining cable fibres (all 2 of them!  :shock: ) *sometimes* snagging in the cable run, so not disengaging the clutch, sometimes half doing it, sometimes not doing it at all etc etc.

Ordered a replacement cable off e-bay just now, and willbe fitting it later this week.  Any tips or handy hints on making this job any easier?

Big thanks for the supply of the clutch pages Cars - helped me follow the cable route until I found the problem.

A thumbs up from me for the people on www.fiat126.co.uk!  

Wiz

[Chris Lakin]

thats really odd, i had exactly the same problem on my BIS when i went to the goole microcar rally,

slight crunch into 1st everytime, and clutch pedal was half way down (should be almost  level with brake pedal everytime we adjusted it and just fell back down,

after we got back to london, couple days later cable snaped (must have been fraying too, looked in bad condition overall) i replaced with a new clutch cable i bought from Milky, and it did the trick but few days later 1st went, Must have been related to the dodgy cable? anyway i will be putting a new gbox in, in the summer along with a new clutch.

when i did mine a month ago, you have to take out all the carpets at the front, to expose the floor pans and remove all the centre consol plastic, there is a metal pipe/tunel in which runs down the centre consol to the back, you should still have some of the cable running from the pedal into this tunnel? feed new cable down here, jack car up at the back (suport car so it doesnt fall on you!!), if you can get someone to push cable through while underneath, i had problems with fitting the cable, i found it hard doing it myself, and my drive is sloping so couldnt jack car up  :sad:  and it was bloody cold!!!! You will work it out I did!

good luck wiz, im pretty sure you will sort it with that cable.

Chris

[maxlee]

Things may not be as bad as this gloomy bunch predict. You can see the clutch if you remove the inspection plate under the car between the engine and the gear box. Use a torch and small mirror to have a look at the wear. See haynes for details. As has been said, a worn clutch usually slips. A badly adjusted one makes gear changing hard.

 

you can check if the clutch is slipping by trying to pull away with the hand brake on (if the hand brake is any good). as the car shouldn't stall if the clutch is slipping do this test in 2nd if u can get it and try using little revs dont floor it tho