Advise on engine swap needed.

[hudsonhenry]

In terms of overall size, I understand that the 1368cc 16v unit from the Panda 100hp (and others - Punto Mk2b Sporting, Stilo, Grande Punto) isn't much larger or heavier than the 1108cc/1242cc FIRE units - a lot of the Cento guys have started using these in favour of turboing the FIRE units as the overall amount of work required is much less for good power/torque returns, might be worth having a look at - Nigel, did you ever consider this unit for a conversion?

I used the pistons from the 1368 into a 1242 8 valve block, we had to deck quite a lot off the block but I wanted a short stroke high revving engine. The 1368 unit has quite a long stroke and the 16v head does not like very high revs. They do however have very similar weights. If I was to do it again (which I might once this one is finished) I would go with a twin air engine.

Nigel

[hudsonhenry]

Hi Hudson,
Great to know your view on the gearbox.
I came across this http://motomax.pl/www-1/index.html they sell uprated drive shaft conversion to tripod joints. This sounds interesting and I think I will go this way. Will the 600cc or the 650cc box be good? Any chance of helping me with the parts list and costs? Can you supply these bits? which engine should I look for? what clutch assembly do you recommend? What about ignition and fuel system? will I need all the ECU and mapping or can I go with webers? Sorry for asking so many questions but looks like I'm hooked on this idea and would like to start shopping for the bits that I need. Thanks.

I have the motormax cv joints on my car (both at the wheel end and into the diff) Haven't run with them yet so I can't say how well they work. Perhaps the best thing to do is give me a call, I will PM you my phone number.

Nigel

[Eklipze3k]

A few guys on FiatForum were discussing the merits of putting a TwinAir into a 'Cento, it was decided that it was far too complicated given that everything is computer controlled - I'd love to see how you go about it if you ever do decide to go down that route

[nrg19uk]

A few guys on FiatForum were discussing the merits of putting a TwinAir into a 'Cento, it was decided that it was far too complicated given that everything is computer controlled - I'd love to see how you go about it if you ever do decide to go down that route

I was looking into this putting one into a 126 and like you said its computer controlled unless you do away with all the sensors and computer and use a stand alone system it's going to be very difficult!! And very expensive

[rudycob1]

Taking all your comments on board and doing a little research I thing the questions and project descisions boil down to the following:

Keeping the Fiat theme, which engine is going to be the best option:
What version (not to good with ECUs and computer aids, so lets keep it simple):
Who can supply the adaptor plate and spigot:
Fuel system with Webers? Who can supply manifold:
Ignitioin system - which one:
Exhaust system:
Which clutch assembly and who supplies them:
Radiator type / size:
Engine mounts:

Also what power output should I expect?

Stick with the 650 box but beef up the drive shafts etc.

Any other issues that any of you can think of?
The other question is what will I need to do as far as the DVLA are concerned in order to register the engine change?

How about you all give your views / answers to the above and lets see what the majority say and try and get to a route to consider taking.

May I thank you all on the comments that I have got from you all so far. Appreciate all your input and advise.

[pietschokkenbroek]

Hello, I am new to this forum. I was searching for the same sort of advise. I am trying to fit a Toyota Aygo engine. It's small, light, reliable and of course rather a challenge.

In the picture you can see my progress on the adapter plate between de Aygo bellhousing and the 126 gearbox.

My big question is/was can the gearbox cope with the extra power?? Reading all your opinions gave me inspiration to continue this route. 

[Hazey-n-Marc]

What is the power of the Aygo?

[Da Londo]

What is the power of the Aygo?

I believe some 65 hp

[Hazey-n-Marc]

Having a gearbox for a smaller engine than what you have is fun, if it breaks get the next one up. The rally spec 126's were not far off that power, I don't know what gearbox they used.

[pietschokkenbroek]

Does anyone have experience with broken down gearboxes (caused by too much power)? What is the weakest link. I think I would have to change te rubber coupelings (how do you call them in English?) at the end of de drive shaft for CV joints.

What are the options for an other gearbox? Does a VW t3 or t4 van gearbox fit between the 126 suspention points?

Hope to hear from you,
Best regards,
Piet

[Pete126]

Hi Piet, Welcome to the forum,

Steve Smalllcox is running nearly 100bhp through his 126 gearbox, What it boils down to is the way you use the clutch, If you feed the power in gently you should not have a problem but if you drop the clutch at 4000rpm you would strip the gears the alternative is using the 5 speed box from a Skoda 110/120/130 but to use this gearbox you have to modify the floor under the rear seat as the gearbox is taller. I like the idea of fitting the Toyota 3 cyl engine, its small and light very similar to the Matiz, although i would imagine the worse part would be working out the wiring for the ECU, It would be good if you started your own thread in [Your Restoration] Section so we can all see how the project is coming along

[Hazey-n-Marc]

The only problems I had (VW Polo not a Fiat) with the big engine and small box were the gear connector rod snapping a couple of times and the ball joints not really being up for it.
Would recommend the beefiest engine/gearbox mounts you can lay your hands on.

Marc

[thepuddlejumper]

Hi the Alfa boxer is a relatively straight forward swap, well so I have been told, it works well with the existing box.  Ther is a 500 running around Couper with a 1500 boxer fitted.  I have also seen several subaru boxers fitted they also seem to work well with the existing box.  The 1600 and 1800 normally aspirated engines are the ones generally used.  Copy following and paste to see a 500 with an 1800 subaru boxer fitted.  Sorry don't know how to insert url well I think thats the term?

http://youtu.be/aA2ecWsngr0

or search for "Fiat 500 with Subaru engine" in you tube

Ralph

[pietschokkenbroek]

Thanks for your reactions!

Wow, 100 bhp on an original gearbox.. This certainly gives me confidence to continue.

Thanks Ralph for the video. I did see a Fiat 600 on the Zcars site, but this 500 Subaru is fantastic and the sound!

I will start a new topic if we made a little more progress... (there still is not really much to share with you all right now..)

Piet

[thepuddlejumper]

There is an adapter plate for sale on ebay italy only problem he wants 299e

http://www.ebay.it/itm/190674806030?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Ralph