Overheating starter motor ??

[Minijohn]

Has anyone had a problem where the starter overheats due to it's proximity to the exhaust?

My car has a Michael Speeder twin tailpipe exhaust which comes within about 10mm of the starter solenoid.
I'm having all sorts of problems starting which I think may be being caused by the heat as I've tried everything else - new battery, cleaned starter, new brushes, new solenoid etc

I'm going to make a heat shield to attach to the exhaust to see if that cures it.

[bertvb]

Just for info:
I also have the Michael Speeder exhaust (single tailpipe). No problems for me, but I have a bit more than 10mm of clearance.

Maybe you could test it with some tinfoil?

[Abarth982]

Not meant to be a daft question but ...  Are the symptoms the same when the engine is stone cold?

[Minijohn]

Yes. What usually happens is the car is OK during the journey and when I stop/restart it's fine.
It's the stone cold that's the problem, as if the heat from the previous journey has really sunk into the starter.

Incidentally I found an exhaust system for sale which said not suitable for cars with electronic starter.
I presume that means the electric solenoid type rather than the earlier pull type.
Maybe it takes up more space or it's heat affects the starter.

I think I'll cut a corner off the silencer and weld a plate over the hole to give a bit more clearance

Thanks

[Minijohn]

I've now removed the silencer and reshaped the part closest to the solenoid to give over 2" clearance.
Now to see if that's cured it............

[Abarth982]

Will be interested to see hoe you get on with the additional clearance.
Must admit that I was expecting you to say the opposite, ie difficult to start when hot after the heat has soaked into the starter, not cold when it should have all dissipated.
What exactly are the cold starting problems, starter not turning fast enough to fire up the engine/not engaging thereby failing to spin the engine?

[bertvb]

I don't think the heat from the exhaust is the problem if you can start with a hot engine.

Have you checked battery voltage when the car is cold? Can you measure any electrical losses (voltage drop) to the starter?

I assume that starting a hot engine works because a hot engine has les frictional losses to overcome when turning.

[Minijohn]

the cold start problem seems to be the solenoid won't pull the bendix into mesh - hence why a whack with a hammer is needed.
Even then the starter was sluggish as if the battery was low, but a new battery didn't cure it.

My theory on heat is that the heat from the exhaust maybe siezes up the solenoid as it cools down, making the next cold start a problem.

I'm going to see how it gets on over the next few days - fingers  crossed.

[Abarth982]

I sold my 126 a year or so ago so can't remember where/what engine to chassis earth straps there are but I'd certainly check/clean them as when cold it'll need far more amps to turn it over than when hot ...
   

[Minijohn]

there's just one engine earth strap - near the alternator.
I've replaced that, cleaned the ends etc and also tried using a jump lead as an additional earth strap, but no difference.
The car's been OK since I modified the silencer box (fingers crossed)

Thinking back, I've been having cold starting problems since I put the twin  exhaust box on the car, .
I replaced the battery, not much better - so I decided it must be the starter motor.
I replaced the solenoid and brushes - still no better, so I fitted a re-con starter motor.
It then seemed OK and for several months the car was off the road while I converted it to RHD. I started it occasionally but it was never taken on a run and got properly hot.
Then 3 months ago I taxed it and have been using it quite often since.

I'm fairly confident the exhaust was the problem, just need a couple of weeks to monitor it.

[Minijohn]

Well I've finally solved it.
I've been waiting for the problem to occur when I'm at home and could do some proper testing.

So to go through the sequence, ignition on, warning lights OK, turn key to start, warning lights dim slightly, nothing happening at the starter motor.

I ran a jump lead from the battery positive and touched the starter terminal, bypassing the solenoid.
The starter motor turned over, meaning my problem lay with the solenoid.

I then removed the small wire from the solenoid & did a voltage check when the key is turned - only 9.3 volts? Voltage check on the battery was 12.5 volts.

I then traced that wire to a junction below the fuse box.
Voltage going in (from the key switch) - 12.5 volts.
Voltage going out - 9.3 volts.
A quick spray with WD40 (I didn't have any contact cleaner) put back together - 12.5 volts in and out.
Re-attach the wire to the solenoid & it fired up first time !!!

[gt alex]

So is it a connection physically under the fuse box. Should I lift the fuse box and give it a drink of crc or wd40.
Mine sometimes just clicks the solenoid this may help?

[Minijohn]

Well this has taken a further twist..............after thinking I'd sorted it, I don't think I have......

My sticky starter returned and I'm now thinking my low voltage reading was due to the power being taken by the solenoid when I tried to start the car..........meaning the suspect joint wasnt suspect at all.

My next plan is to run a jump lead directly from the battery to the starter solenoid in case I'm losing battery power along the existing lead (I can't see how I can be, but must be worth a try)

gt alex - for your problem, I'd start by removing the starter motor, clean everything and check the brushes. You might as well replace them while you have the starter apart, they're about £6 a pair.

I've also been slightly diverted for a while with the 126.
My brother in law died recently and my sister has given me his old car - a 1991 Mini Cooper which he bought new and has done only 13K miles!!
So now I have 2 "toy" cars

[Njkip]

Looks in very good condition .....very nice..👍