Author Topic: Cylinders and pistons  (Read 4262 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

tris70uk

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 0
Cylinders and pistons
« on: August 26, 2009, 07:06:08 PM »
Hi All

I read somewhere on this thread that it is possible to fit vw cylinders and pistons onto our blocks.

Does anyone know of any information regarding this mod,  or better still,  has anyone done it????

Please.

Jon :)

hudsonhenry

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 303
  • Karma: 1
    • http://www.retro500.com
Re: Cylinders and pistons
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2009, 07:16:41 PM »
Have a look here:

http://www.126fan.pl/

On the menu on the left scroll down to
Dział Techniczny

and take a look at:

- Maluch 800 ccm 

There is a step by step guide – in Polish. Can any of the Plish forum members translate?
http://www.retro500.com the site dedicated to modified Fiat 500's

tris70uk

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 0
Re: Cylinders and pistons
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2009, 07:41:23 PM »
Thank you.  Will have a look.

Jon :D

roobeh

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
  • Karma: 3
Re: Cylinders and pistons
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2009, 08:15:39 PM »
i bunged it through the google translator...

(no pics sorry)


--------------------------------------------------------------

Engine 800 at Fiat 126p

The following text is copied with the consent of the parties Deniora
http://strony.wp.pl/wp/tdoening

 
A few words of introduction:

800ccm engine capacity is built block 650 Achieving such a high capacity on the same block entails a lot of modifications the same block and a piston-crankshaft system. So far this design is tested in two cars - Polo Deniora - and so far after covering 8.000km not shown any side effects. The advantage of this design compared to the total engine transplants is that absolutely nothing from the outside can not see, so you do not have cars przerejstrowywać greater capacity. If someone, after reading the following material were still doubts about the installation, let the questions will refer to Polo or Deniora.

 

What you need to buy:

1. two 86 mm pistons with rings and pins with the Beetle 1600 (as of today, 200 PLN)
2. two cylinders of the Beetle 1600 (a shallow head) of the heat sinks are not broken (I got used to the free perimeter of 85.5 mm)
You can buy in Cracow Mr. Andrzej Folty, st. Jasielska 14, tel (12) 267-35-85,
3. shaft with bisa (I mean fine counterbalance) the price depends on the source, rather a new way
4. Crankshafts with two sleeve beetle (after 2 PLN)
5. a piece of sheet copper gasket on the head with a thickness of 0.3 to 0.5 mm

Tools needed:

1. drill
2. leaves No 40 and 120 or subordinated (to the end of a drill with sanding sandpaper petals around the plastic core)
3. SAG
4. cutting disc
5. sanding disc

To block engine was more resistant to breakage have to strengthen, should rejoice at the block wall below the gallery, opening the pan from the shaft of the flywheel as a result of the cooling material is slightly distorted have to very carefully (so as not to overdo it) to scrub the pan and then check whether shaft rotates slightly as it is possible curvature of the acetabulum, and may not be in the shaft.

 


 

The next step is to prepare the cylinders, they must necessarily be a cylinder of "shallow head" they have a lower edge which comes into head Beetle (cylinder is treated less about 4mm from the serial and the cylinder head for the deep that were shorter by almost 1 cm) have bring the cylinders to roll grinder and has protruding from the top of the first rib rant slightly sinking them (only offset) so that it comprised an area of support head, first rib cut (a circle with a diameter of 10 cm) that did not break when tightening the head, then measure 79 , 5 mm from the surface of contact with the cylinder head to this place and grind the lower part of the cylinder so as to create a place of support for the block (height of the cylinder from where based on the block is 79.5 mm), it was unclear if something is drawing. In the case of not having a shallow cylinder head should be performed in the cylinder / g figure but subject to the dimensions of the bottom (OLAC podtaczaniem upper part of the ribs and head support to do on the collar of the cylinder).


When the cylinders are now ready to be with the angle grinder podszlifować all the ribs that interfere in the cylinder is inserted into the block between the cylinder clearance should be about 0.5 mm, then you must cut out the użebrowaniu slot pins. There is a possibility that the play (or lack thereof) between the cylinder and the crankshaft counterweight is too small (should be at least 2 mm), in which case you must cut out the cylinders and pistons suitable undercuts for retaining the symmetry of the pistons (undercutting of the two sides symmetrical piston), all smooth out the edges nicely.


Then prepare a set of piston crank, you need to bring rods into grinders that settled from the bushes and rozwiercił beetle (tightly fold) to the piston pins Beetle (diameter 22 mm - standard tube is 20 mm), standard rods are accurately finished and can be removed unnecessarily large part of their material which will reduce the weight (standard piston crank sets are lighter by about 2x100g from a set of 800 grams lighter each wound brings us to a better balancing of the crankshaft, which reduces the risk of rupture of the shaft) and after wypolerowaniu increase fatigue resistance, it should be polished and then polish with such endings Drill lobe "according to the figure below. The entire balance as accurately as possible (the two sets must weigh exactly the same, it is helpful kitchen electronic scales)


As already crank piston system will be installed in the block will be able to take the head. The head should be zaspawać screw holes for drainage gas leaks and grooves, offset by a weld head, and then planning to expand the dimension of the combustion chamber of the cylinder (~ 86 mm), is to reduce the degree of compression to choose some material from the bite, but do with the measure the capacity of the chamber (syringe and how much water enters the "flat"), we calculate the compression ratio = volume of the combustion chamber + 408 cm3 / combustion chamber volume (you should not exceed 10.6 and the maximum 12, then you have to pour a very high octane fuel).

We need a gasket, cut the copper plaque thickness 0.3 - 0.5 mm. If the plunger is slightly protruded over the cylinder (can happen if the height of the cylinder is less than 79.5 mm) it must be done properly thicker gasket. The diameter of the hole in the gasket should be slightly larger than the diameter of the piston in the cylinder so it does not impinge openings dopiłowywać best for a particular system seals (do stamp) because the reversal can not agree.

The engine warms up more than just baby oil temperature may reach 150 degrees so it is advisable to use additional cooling oil, you can use an aluminum pan with a capacity of 4l (the temperature drops about 20 degrees) or the oil cooler.

It should also establish a long box (from the Bisa) in order to make better use of a more powerful engine on the route or leave the merge which is a bit too short for the engine but good for tight KJS'ów.

The burning of the city around 7-8l route when driving around 80 km / h 5l.

At the end of the characteristics of the engine was completely serial fields in addition to increased capacity and lightweight flywheel. As you can see the pits but it is very fast with the roller can be nicely compensated. When using a roller 385 is similar to the characteristics of the series, ie max torque at around 3.5 thousand, very pleasant to ride.

Rusty's Uncle

  • Subscriber VIP+
  • Super Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2837
  • Karma: 34
Re: Cylinders and pistons
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2009, 08:59:31 PM »
 :) Well that makes it al clear then  ;D ;D

Obviously got a bit of interest in this after picking up the 795ccs engine this year but this one was done about 30 years ago by Italtune of London using Alquati parts. All long gone now so impossible to get any info. However at the Uxbridge show a guy came over & said that he was tuning engines and having them bored out to 795ccs by a firm in High Wycombe. Never got to have a good chat but thought I might check it out as it is on my doorstep  [-/

tris70uk

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 0
Re: Cylinders and pistons
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2009, 09:03:09 PM »
Cheers guy's.

I had already tried a translator,  but no where near as clear as that one.

Worth thinking about.

Jon :D

1973/126

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1753
  • Karma: 23
  • Location: Tunbridge Wells
Re: Cylinders and pistons
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2009, 07:52:30 AM »
 Rusty are yours standard cylinders bored out to 795cc, or what is the max cc you can get out of the standard ones? Is the crank shaft any different?
 
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

Rusty's Uncle

  • Subscriber VIP+
  • Super Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2837
  • Karma: 34
Re: Cylinders and pistons
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2009, 10:08:58 AM »
OK I do not know the whole story about the engine and I got it with the head removed and have not stripped it any further because of other projects & needs. I have worked on the head & got it ready to go back on. It is quite heavily ported , polished & opened up to suit the twin choke Weber (which I have almost got ready for use ) manifold or the Dellorto FZD 32 28 (which I have not touched yet). To cope with the bigger bore the gas escape groove on the head face has been filled with ally weld. I have checked the bore size & with a stadard crank throw it equates to the 795ccs. I have not checked the stroke as the bores were nicely greased but I suspect it is standard. I only have a 499ccs engine in bits at the moment so that is the only thing I can compare with . I did notice that the cylinders were different as there is a tapped hole about half way up the side that may be for some sort of brace or that they were made for a different engine (VW?). To get the cylinders to fit the 126 crankcase it has to be bored out to suit. I believe that the flywhell has been lightened & it still has a heavy duty clutch fitted. The guy I got it from said that the most expensive individual item was the Alquati camshft which he said cost about £260 & that was 30 years ago !
He has told me that he located the original receipt recently & he said that the initial work on the engine was about £1,000. Hoping to get my hands on the document to answer some questions. When the engine was installed he added an oil temperature / pressure gauge & a rev counter. The engine also has a large cast ally Alquati sump.
I was telling a guy a couple of weeks back about the engine. He has been messing with Fiat 500s for over 30 years and told me that he has a similar engine but without the big sump. I am hoping to go over & have a look at it in a few weeks time. I thought I might ask him if he was interested in seling it  [-/

Rusty's Uncle

  • Subscriber VIP+
  • Super Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2837
  • Karma: 34
Re: Cylinders and pistons
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 01:45:44 PM »
 :) Got my new computer at last and getting it sorted  so may be able to post pics soon  [-/

bis13

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2749
  • Karma: 39
Re: Cylinders and pistons
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 06:50:28 PM »
good i need some engine porn!

tris70uk

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Karma: 0
Re: Cylinders and pistons
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 06:52:35 PM »
I keep walking past my engine,  pistons exposed thinking,   hhhmmmmmmmm.

Jon  :-)

michaelodonnell500

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 758
  • Karma: 7
Re: Cylinders and pistons
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2009, 08:39:44 PM »
I fancy builing an oversized into a 500 block so the engine code looks ok on the log book.
I had a little look at a set of 4 pistons, rings, gudgeon pins, gudgeon pin clips and barrels for a 1600 Beetle, comes in at £140, so that's £70 an engine which is a good bit cheaper than a stock 126 set, and they are a Mahle set which aren't the shoddiest either


 http://www.vwheritage.com/vwh/VW-Camper-Van-Parts%5CBus-Parts-1968-79%5CEngines-1600cc%5CBearings-Cylinders%5C?templateID=vwh

The beetle cylinder head is a possibility, twin port heads can be bought new for about £170,
not sure how well the push rods would line up, but If i spot a mangled 1.6 beetle head on Flea bay, i might take a look, the Panda 30 heads are going for far too much money these days
Rust does not discriminate