Author Topic: Engine failiure  (Read 4431 times)

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Tim Briggs

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Engine failiure
« on: December 08, 2015, 07:58:24 PM »
Hello
I have had quite a bit of trouble with my 87' 126 (air). It kept breaking down, and would be ok for a while after cleaning the carb, but the time between breakdowns was getting shorter. I had ruled out timing (checked with gun) ht leads replaced (electronic ignition) installed a new petrol filter, changed oil etc.
I then bought a brand new carb and fitted it and all was well for a week or two. Then problems started again. The car starts fine, but starts loosing power and rpm's when warm. You can work the accelerator and get it back up but after not very long it dies. Occasionally while this is going on, the problem clears for a second or two and the car lunges forward at full power, only to collapse again. A friend suggested fuel mixture but I wondered if any one had an idea before I start tinkering.
Cheers

Pete126

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Re: Engine failiure
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2015, 09:21:40 PM »
Hi Tim, you seemed to have covered most of the items that would cause the engine to die when hot, Your problem seems very similar to Bar Vitelli's, It could be overheating, Is the fan belt OK and Tension'd correctly, maybe some of the aircooled guy's can help you out :) 
Pete.      il cavallo piccolo

ChrisRLewis

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Re: Engine failiure
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2015, 09:48:54 PM »
Perhaps check the interior of the petrol tank for rust, especially since a new carburettor made it run OK for a week.

Tim Briggs

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Re: Engine failiure
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2015, 10:20:31 PM »
Thanks chaps
The petrol tank is not clean (the car was known as 'pond life' having been pushed into a pond), however, I have fitted a clear plastic in line fuel filter and it is clean as a whistle. The fan belt seem fine, and does not squawk under load. I am hoping it in not some sort of head gasket problem or burnt valve. I can't think it a structural problem as it starts and drives beautifully until up to temp.
Any one else any ideas?

drcdb15

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Re: Engine failiure
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2015, 11:15:12 PM »
You can try looking through this thread, which covers a number of ideas which might lead to erratic running. There are other threads on the forum too, in fact so many you can take quite a while to go through them all!  http://club126uk.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9909.msg73620#msg73620


A couple of immediate thoughts: fuel line too close to the engine, so when engine gets hot the fuel is partially vaporising *before* it enters the carburettor; secondly: is the coil breaking down when it gets hot?
 
Yes you changed the HT leads, but what about the coil itself?

The basic analysis is the same as in the thread I referenced - everything is fine when the engine is cold, it all stops when the engine gets hot. So what has changed? What is changing as the engine gets hotter? What other parts are getting hot too? And perhaps unexpectedly, like the fuel line?

Also, what is changing as it gets hotter? Is a split hose sealed when cold but leaking when hot?

Whatever is changing as it gets hot is reversing the change as it cools, but you say the time between failures is getting shorter. This suggests the failure item is getting worse. This suggests something like the coil, since every time the insulation breaks down it causes internal damage, so next time it fails sooner and easier.

Contrast with fuel evaporation in the fuel line. As the line position doesn't change, it simply gets hot then gets cool again, with no resultant change, why would the time taken to vaporise the fuel change? It would be the same every time you run the engine.

I recall someone once found the carburettor float to be punctured, and this led to similar problems. Although you fitted a new carb, was the *float* also new? It might be worth checking it out - even new floats can be faulty in manufacture, and I'd guess this one wasn't made all that recently...

thepuddlejumper

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Re: Engine failiure
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2015, 12:22:51 AM »
My dad had a similar problem, the car would start and run fine then splutter and die. It turned out to be a worn fuel pump push rod. Once replaced everything was fine. Maybe worth a look.
Ralph

Bambino126

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Re: Engine failiure
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2015, 01:36:37 AM »
My guess is the fuel tank - You see the fuel pick up pipe inside the tank has a metal gauze filter that blocks up with little rust particles. When you stop the car for a few minutes and the suction begins to die down some particles fall off the end and the car can be restarted but the problem soon recurs.

On my car I've removed the metal gauze filter and just use the normal in line filter in the engine bay - at least its easy to change them when they block up.

gammakeith

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Re: Engine failiure
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2015, 07:18:25 AM »
It is worth checking that your exhaust system is not completely clogged due to collapsed baffle.  Its unlikely but I once spent weeks trying to find out why a mates mini kept conking out.  I even convinced myself cleaning the carb helped.  Turned out to be badly clogged silencer!

Keith

Tim Briggs

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Re: Engine failiure
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2015, 09:02:37 AM »
Crikey!
Thanks for the responses. The fuel pump and lines are new (I removed the electric one that had been fitted, for sale if any one interested). The coil and electronic ignition look to be fairly new, probably a few years old but the car has done very low miles in the past 3 years, it had all the electrics dismantled when I bought it and spent a year being tinkered with. I will replace the coil any way. I had an issue with the centrifugal weights sticking in the distributor but that is fixed.
I will also flush the fuel tank.
How can I check the condition of the exhaust internals?
Tim

1973/126

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Re: Engine failiure
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2015, 09:38:31 AM »
 Tim just replace the fuel tank. They are cheap as. The fuel tanks is always the first thing I replace when I get a 126 as I haven`t come across a good one yet. They are always full of rust.
 The fuel pump might be new but when these engines get hot the block slightly expands and there isn`t much travel on the actuating rod. Might be worth checking how many gaskets you`ve got on the spacer and check the travel of the rod.
 I would also check the valve clearances and the condenser if there is one fitted.
 If after this the car is still not running right I would revert back to standard ignition, as people had problems with those electronic set ups in the past, including me.
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

Tim Briggs

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Re: Engine failiure
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2015, 05:55:17 PM »
Thanks,
Is the best place to get a fuel tank ricambio?

Bambino126

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ChrisRLewis

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Re: Engine failiure
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2015, 09:10:31 PM »
New ones are available on Ebay for £41 which includes postage.