Club126UK

Fiat 500 Chat => Fiat 500 Chat => Topic started by: Pete126 on January 27, 2015, 08:49:00 PM

Title: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Pete126 on January 27, 2015, 08:49:00 PM

Have some nice pictures ;D

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201516.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201518.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201519.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201512.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201520.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201517.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201515.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201513.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201514.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201507.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201511.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201510.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201505.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201528.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201527.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201522.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201526.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201523.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201525.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201524.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201521.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201508.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201506.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201504.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201503.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201502.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/201501.jpg)

(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/Club126-500/GOPR1368vvLarge.jpg)

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Bar Vitelli on January 27, 2015, 09:31:34 PM

Stunning pics, Pete, I like the caravan one and the picture of Emma's 500 best!   8)

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: emma on January 28, 2015, 08:36:51 PM

Thank you both, the picture looks fab with my car and jet in it ;D

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: 1973/126 on February 01, 2015, 04:13:05 PM

 Some nice photos Pete. My favourites are the ones with the Steyrs  ;)

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: drcdb15 on February 01, 2015, 05:52:45 PM

As I understand it, that second one, B269 WVG, is (or recently has) been getting an 1800cc Scooby transplant, and the engine that was formerly in it (which is a nicely tweaked a/c with Panda 30 head) is currently sat in my garage, hibernating...  ;)

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: thepuddlejumper on February 01, 2015, 06:56:01 PM

The barcheta 595 in the second photo has an 1800cc Subaru engine from the pickup fitted by Zcars, it is on youtube. Zcars cave done a couple of these conversions with 500's.

Ralph

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: 1973/126 on February 01, 2015, 06:57:26 PM

 Ha-ha. I was wondering who bought that engine. I had my eyes on it too. When are you planning on fitting it? The CCZero will fly with that engine.

 I think the guy with that Subaru engine Barchetta also has a special little Steyr Puch.

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: drcdb15 on February 01, 2015, 10:40:06 PM

Got to sell my XJ Sport first - going in for MoT and a new lambda sensor tomorrow, then it's on the market, What Car 'good' valuation less 10% for 126 fans, or any reasonable offer, 2001 Yreg, 3.2 V8, 62868 miles, MoT until end of Feb 2016 (yes, 13 moths' MoT) full cream leather and Seafrost outside, Celtic alloys, all the standard Jaguar goodies, everything works (I think!), cruise, sports seats, stainless steel mesh grille, 6 CD changer, tell all your friends...

Go on, you know you want it  :P

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Marky on February 06, 2015, 12:05:50 PM

Hi Peeps. I own the original moulds for the barchetta 595 originally designed by Peter Stevens (Lotus elan-McLaren F1 designer) and manufactured by the Dove Company in Norfolk. I am lead to believe only 22 original bodies were ever produced from the moulds between 1993 and 1995. All other incarnations were copies from an original body, including the version with opening doors. The original was never designed to have doors.

After a long time gearing up, I am now putting the bodies in production. A road legal vehicle can easily be built using parts from any 126 beyond economical repair as new floorpans and subframes are readily available online.

The new, full body includes all panels, moulded dash, x2 bucket seats, full floorpan with built in front and rear bulkheads and sides (all one piece) and outer shell that mates directly to the lower pan. The lower pan in turn, mates to an existing or new fiat 126 steel floorpan and bolt on subframes.  Lights are standard Fiat 500. Light Kits cost  (front-rear lights and loom) available online for £169.00 (OEM). LED options are also out there.

The reason for its early demise in the 90s was due to the expense of producing full bodies from such a complex mould (21 individual pieces) and the cost of materials in those days. I understand it cost £3000+ for the body then.  In todays money with inflation that is £5418.60 using an online inflation calculator.

With modern technology and more widely available composites, I can produce these bodies  for £2595.00 all in for a whole shell and panels. All you need is the donor, lights and trimming of seats and interior. These bodies are the best GRP bodies I have ever seen come out of a mould. The Dove company certainly knew their stuff! www.595s.org
I will post some images of a the first untrimmed body produced since 1995! (YES! UNTRIMMED!!!!! :o) as soon as I've worked out how to do it!   ;) ;)

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Marky on February 06, 2015, 12:31:55 PM

FULL Barchetta 595 body (minus one seat cos its still being made! lol).

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: poxxxy on February 06, 2015, 01:57:33 PM

What wonderful news Mark :D. I would certainly love a 595 abarth :D.

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Marky on February 06, 2015, 03:28:47 PM

Hi Poxxxy! Thank you for your reply and Email. You've asked some interesting questions so I will try to answer them here. To build the car, there are 4 options.

First option is to source a 126 that's beyond economical repair (I.e, Major rot but running engine), Cut away the body and leave only the floor pan and arches as a rolling chassis. Replace and reinforce the floor pan where necessary (replacement floor pans are available on ebay for around £180 and steel arches are available from specialists on the net at very good prices). retain all running gear, wiring loom, steering geometry etc to transplant into the new shell. Add an OEM fiat 500 lighting pack and a trim of your choice.
Mate the floor pan to the underside of the new shell (fits like a glove) and fit the vehicle out. Roll over hoops would add extra strength. This will then retain the registration of the donor car. Registration with DVLA would only be to inform them the vehicle is a rebodied fiat 126 and is called a Barchetta 595. DVLA will update the log book and job done.

Second option is to have a bespoke chassis made out of box or tubular aluminium or steel. (MK engineering in yorkshire (Martin Keenan is the man to talk to as I have been liaising with him regarding this and the possibility of other donor cars like the smart fortwo-he is already familiar with the body but only a copy version without the lower tub). 
Transpant the entire running gear to the new chassis and body (if you have the logbook from the donor you plan to transplant from, after an IVA test, it would be issued an age related plate. Not a Q Plate.

Option three is to build one with a new chassis and all new parts (a reconditioned engine will be allowed) and this will be registered as a new vehicle and a current year registration. A donor wiring loom can be used along with the original clocks as long as they are zeroed.

The last option is as option 3 but with any engine that will fit and what ever running gear that would suit your needs. Registration is in the same way - IVA etc.

Cars to consider as donors are:

Smart fortwo as the layout of the floorpan lends to this and there is only 27mm of difference in the wheelbase. This can easily be rectified by altering the two front wishbones to bring the front wheels in by 27mm.

A fiat seicento with the engine moved to the back and all other running gear etc.

I am also toying with building an electric version on a new chassis using a G Wiz as the donor. It will also be fitted with a 50cc range extender (engine mated to a 48v DC charging unit and controller).
When the batteries run low, the engine kicks in and give 3.1kw of direct to motor power and will charge the batteries when stationary. Great if you cant plug it in anywhere or want it to charge itself outside the pub or supermarket. This works better than mains charging because DC to DC charging at high voltage is far better than trickling of the mains. That's ok when your at home but not when your out and about.  The range extender also add 40%+ extra life to the batteries as the engine will kick in and out with little top ups as you drive preventing low battery discharge.

A picture of a cut down 126 is at the bottom of my web page www.595s.org

I hope this information helps.  ;D

Mark....



 

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Marky on February 06, 2015, 04:15:49 PM

Just a thought Poxxy..... What about a BMW boxer motorbike engine with the shaft drive mounted to a quaife Diff and new drive shafts to the wheels? Possible option? Its a compact and very low engine so would fit the engine bay with loads of room to spare! Im no expert though. It was just a thought...... :-

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: poxxxy on February 08, 2015, 02:54:52 PM

Isn't this considered as modifying the original "monocoque" chassis though and therefore would not pass an IVA test? And then fall under a radically altered vehicle and then require a "normal IVA" and end up being registered on a Q plate.

This is the part that trips me up when i'm reading about such conversions... :).

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Marky on February 09, 2015, 09:45:12 AM

Hi Poxxxy. An IVA test only exists to make sure a car is road worthy. A car will only end up on a Q plate if... 1. DVLA can not identify a vehicle that was used as a donor or multiple vehicles Ie. If a car had sierra brakes, granada engine, fiat gearbox, vauxhall steering rack and BMW wheels etc. If all the afore mentioned parts were second hand, then it would end up on a Q plate.

2. If the Identification of the donor vehicle is questionable. (Unlikely). The only way this would happen is if you bought a stolen/recovered vehicle from a salvage dealer and the vehicles identity had been removed. this is why you sometimes see normal manufactured cars on a Q plate. Because its unidentifiable and is issued with a new chassis number.

If you use ALL of the donor mechanical's (I use that term loosely), and produce a log book for the vehicle lets say its a 1982) and the original vehicle was an X reg, DVLA would dissolve the original donor registration and issue a brand new X registration for the car. (age related plate).

If you use a donor floorpan aswell, this is classed as rebodied and will retain the original registration but you can re name the vehicle on the log book.

If you use all new parts and a recon engine with reciepts, it will be registered as new.

My brother works for DVLA. Has done for 22 years. He knows better than anyone. I made sure I knew crystal clear before I posted the info.  ;D

I hope this helps. A simple google images for barchetta 595 will show you NONE of them were EVER issued a Q plate.

You have been on my website and my number is listed there. Please feel free to call me if I can help clarify any points. www.595s.org

Marky.  ;)

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: 1973/126 on February 09, 2015, 10:25:09 AM

 This is very interesting and nice to see the Barchetta kit will live on again. I read and heard a lot about them and also the poor quality of some other kits that were on the market.
 
 Are the bonnet and engine lid available to by separately and if so what is the price for these?

 I think the biggest problem for most people would be the IVA test and the fact the 126 aren`t cheap or easy to find anymore.  Probably a complete kit with a custom chassis would be the best option.

 I`ve got a spare CCZero chassis, wondering if I could make that work. The wheelbase is slightly longer on the Zero, but not by much.
 

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Marky on February 09, 2015, 10:42:43 AM

The only way a vehicle will fail an IVA test is if its not road worthy, the lights can not be seen or fails emissions. simple as that. Expensive but simple. Emissions are based on the age of the donor. a donor from 1992 or before will not have an emissions test.

Registration from DVLA is a separate issue and only deals with a vehicles IDENTITY. 

A lot of people confuse the two issues. Please dont.

Q plating is based on DVLA being unable to identify a year of manufacture or a car built from several donors.

If anyone has questions, visit www.595s.org and my number is listed on the contacts page.

Marky ;D

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: poxxxy on February 10, 2015, 09:24:06 AM

Just like to clear things up. As id love away around things myself. But from what I read... the IVA test required varies and the outcome affects registration and identity of the vehicle.  Any modification to original chassis seems to suggest that you won't be able to keep the cars original identity as it will be classed as a radically altered vehicle as to retain its identity/registration the vehicle must score 8 or more points. 5 of which must come from the original monocoque frame/chassis unaltered. Now I think this wasn't the case in previous years if the car was modified before a certain cut off point.

Hence why engine conversions are ok, if they fit without modification to the original frame as you can retain the compulsory 5 points from unmodified chassis minus body/infill panels.

Maybe it's not the case,  but they sure make it sound that way.

And then it ends up being q plated, which is no big deal... its a kit car again :).

Not trying to p*ss on anything here as I love the idea, but could be a gamble as it's down to the IVA tester at the DVLA what he marks down. I guess done right you could pull wool over eyes :).

Thought I'd found a donor earlier but turns out it's already been chopped in half :(.

Again I'd love to be told otherwise with some proof to follow it up as extreme chassis modification would make for some good conversions easily and without such hassle.

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Marky on February 11, 2015, 03:53:28 PM

Hi Guys. You may find this useful. It applies directly TO AGE RELATED REGISTRATION NUMBERS directly from DVLA.

here is the wording and a direct link to DVLA will be at the bottom.

 Vehicle registration
Overview
New and used vehicles
New registrations
New registrations fee
Rebuilt vehicles
Kit-built vehicles
Kit-converted vehicles
Radically altered vehicles
Old vehicles
Reconstructed classic vehicles
Vehicle identification number
'Q' registration numbers
7. Kit-converted vehicles
Your vehicle must meet the road vehicles regulations if you use it on the road.

A kit-converted vehicle has had:

a kit of new parts added to an existing vehicle, or
old parts added to a new kit
The general appearance of the vehicle will change because of the kit.

How to register
You must follow all the instructions for registering a new vehicle.

You’ll need to include the following with your application:

form V627/1 - ‘Built up vehicle inspection report’
the vehicle registration certificate for the original vehicle
evidence of type approval, if necessary – see ‘Vehicle type approval’ below
official receipts for any parts used
build plans
photographs of the vehicle
Contact DVLA if you’re not sure about what you need to provide.

Send your application to:

K and R
DVLA
SA99 1ZZ

Keep a vehicle’s original registration number
You can apply to keep a kit converted vehicle’s original registration number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with the original unmodified:

chassis (car or light van)
monocoque bodyshell (car or light van)
frame (motorbike)

(THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART)...
Get an age-related registration number
You can apply for an age-related number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with:

a new monocoque bodyshell, chassis or frame from a specialist kit manufacturer
an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle
The registration number will be based on the age of the original vehicle.

Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get an age-related registration number.


Get a Q registration number
DVLA will give your vehicle a ‘Q’ prefix registration number if you don’t meet the conditions for getting an original or age-related registration number.

Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get a Q registration number.

Vehicles with a Certificate of Destruction (CoD) must never reappear as complete vehicles or be presented for registration, though some components may be recycled. You can’t keep the original registration or vehicle identification number.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconverted-vehicles

As it clearly states, You ARE allowed to use a Modified/altered floorpan or shell as long as the original donor does not have a certificate of destruction on it. The idea here is to obtain an age related plate. This is by far the the most simple method. A cut down reinforced floorpan and 2 major components from the donor is all you need. Along with the LOGBOOK of course!You don't even need to have the original donor MOT'd. Major components are:

(i) chassis,
(ii) body,
(iii) suspension,
(iv) an axle,
(v) transmission, or
(vi) steering assembly.

Most people use the old engine and box and steering assembly. The rest is down to individual preference.

Marky. 

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Marky on February 11, 2015, 04:39:31 PM

Hi 1973/126. Yes the bonnet and boot lid will be available separately. However, I do not have a price yet. More info on that on Friday.

I'm looking into the new chassis as we speak. I am hoping to have a chassis ready to take bolt on parts over the coming months.

Marky 

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: 1973/126 on February 11, 2015, 07:09:55 PM

 Marky I`m looking forward to more info and pictures on this and the update on the bonnet and boot lid.
 
 I`ve got this CCZero kit car frame here(based around the 126). If it could help in your chassis design I would be happy to lend it.
 (http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/Fiat-mad-lad/x_zps57b88ee8.jpg) (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/Fiat-mad-lad/media/x_zps57b88ee8.jpg.html)
 

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: poxxxy on February 12, 2015, 12:00:21 PM

Hi Marky, thankyou for clearing this up :).

So going down this route... we can get an age related registration number... but not the original one :). Not a problem I guess! :D.

The CCzero chassis certainly looks like a good starting point... although I don't particularly like all of those square parts of chassis :D. Much prefer an all tubular design!

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Marky on February 12, 2015, 01:11:37 PM

Hi Guys.

1973/126.... Thank you for the offer of borrowing your chassis. Its very kind of you. Unfortunately it is the wrong shape and looks like it would need extensive modification to fit. The two halves of my shell bonded together does no lend to sides. The only place the upper steel work would be necessary on a new platform is directly behind the seats and front bulk head. This would help support the weight of the shell although my engineer thinks its a good add on it might not be necessary due to the rigidity of the new upper and lower bodies once bonded. The nearest thing I've seen that comes close is the XRL8 chassis that shows the front and rear hoops. It does not need to be engineered to that sort of level for my body. The reason the XLR8 chassis was designed that way is due to the company using a copy upper body and no lower tub or at least only part of it. Hence needing a massively strong frame. If I build a new chassis, it will look similar to the XLR8 but software designed and will be a lot lighter than the XLR8. If I can get the weight down to below 400KG fully built, it will be classed as a heavy quadricycle (L7e) and would not require IVA testing. They are exempt from what I understand. I'm still looking into that though.

I WILL however be building an electric version with a range extender based on the G wiz. Using a new chassis. (Im not keen on the existing G wiz chassis). The total weight of that vehicle without batteries would be less that 350kg. More likely around 300kg or less. Our bodyshell with all panels weighs less than 100kg. The shell lends well to electric as there is room under the bonnet for the range extender (in series hybrid drive) and with the space behind the rear seats (a second boot if you like) more than capable of taking the 6 batteries. 3 on the chassis line and 3 on top. This will aid hadling as most of the weight is mid mounted and all of the weight bar 3 batteries is at chassis level. I will post an image of the XLR8 chassis shortly. I found one on the net.



Poxxxy. Yes, as you say, a reissued reg is no problem.  (I'll post this bit for everyone else's benefit), If your donor registration is for EG: BDH 774Y and this is dissolved by DVLA, you will end up with something like GRT 316Y. Same year, just different letters and numbers. That the long and short of it.

The other point to mention is... and I quote my brother here..."most people turn up to DVLA or the IVA with little or no or even incorrect paper work. That's how things end up on a Q Reg"

Basically, Fill out the correct forms. Especially the one that covers the donor. I posted a link about this yesterday and on that page, it shows the correct form. This is a back door and DVLA do not advertise it. I will post a copy of the form here along with the XLR8 Chassis.

Marky.     

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Marky on February 12, 2015, 01:37:52 PM

XLR8 link.

http://www.simod.co.uk/xlr8.htm

DVLA form for a BUILT UP VEHICLE.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/built-up-vehicle-inspection-report

Hope this helps. The report only deals with obtaining an age related plate.

The IVA is about a vehicles ability to be roadworthy. A failed IVA test would not get a vehicle Q plated.
It would not go on the road at all!

Paperwork is the key here!

Marky. 

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: 1973/126 on February 12, 2015, 04:03:02 PM

 Marky no problem and I see where you coming from. That XLR8 chassis looks pretty good and probably a much better alternative than a standard 126 floor-pan. I like the fact that it also uses new components. Some of the 126 parts in rhd form could be fairly tricky to obtain unless you had a donor car. Things like steering racks and pedal box.
 Would there be any other benefits of it being registered as a heavy quadricycle? What would the road tax be like? I think I looked into this before, but I can`t remember.

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: poxxxy on February 12, 2015, 07:06:52 PM

Thanks for the clear up on everything, its certainly a minefield to walk through without the correct information behind you, I'll keep saving pennies for now :).

I don't think i'd be using a Gee whiz for the electric motor though... you can buy real exciting motors/curtis current controllers/battery monitoring systems etc that would make it a real pocket rocket. Decent loading bay for batteries and we get a half decent range possible to! I could make use of that electric car charging point I always see outside Ikea empty lol. With a decent motor and chassis could make something that would wipe the floor with a Tesla S!

Maybe the cutdown 126 is "the" option for now, but a little sacrilege unless the donor was never going to be really restored easily! A well designed space frame chassis would certainly spice things up though! Do you have a 595 in Telford at the moment? I'd like to see it sometime for sure and thats only up the A5 from me a little.

The XLR8 looks like my cup of tea, but roll over protection as they say they'll be adding is a must! Couple of tubes around the headrests should suffice to inspire a little more confidence :D.

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: drcdb15 on February 12, 2015, 10:23:21 PM

Slightly off-topic, so sorry for that, but since this club is generally focused on keeping older, should I perhaps say "diminutive classics" like the 126 on the road, and since the CC Zero is even more diminutiver and even more rarityfied that the common or garden 126, and since only 21 were made and most of those  seem to be in France, can I make a plea to Ladislav not to butcher the remaining CC Zero chassis but to complete it back to "original" spec (if there is such a concept with a kit car!)?

Perhaps even transplant his Steyr boxer power plant into it ... ?

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: 1973/126 on February 13, 2015, 08:50:12 AM

 I think we went off topic here long time ago ;D
 The problem is, out of the three CCZeros I still have only one is properly registered. One frame is completely rotten and the red one has no bodywork. It is also one of the last 2 possibly, so it`s slightly different. Anyway I do have a plan in mind for it at some point in the future.
 BTW to my knowledge it`s 21 made by Car Craft and 2 by Zero engineering.

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: Marky on February 17, 2015, 02:29:33 PM

Hi Guys!
All the new images are now on my website. There are 5 galleries with highly detailed scale-able images.

The new body in depth.
All bolt on panels and seats.
The ORIGINAL blue factory moulds.
A factory built car from 1993 (so I'm told but we didn't build it).
And... a very interesting little fiat 500 from Germany.

www.595s.org

I look forward to hearing your views on the body and quality of the moulds.
Marky   

Title: Re: Where are all the 500's
Post by: poxxxy on February 17, 2015, 06:59:01 PM

Enjoyed the look through the pictures there Marky :), that black 595 is certainly a beauty! The mould looks pretty damn good to!