Club126UK
Fiat 126 Chat => Fiat 126 Mechanical Problem Solving => Topic started by: Bruce on March 30, 2006, 04:37:27 PM
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Just tried to start my Bis, but after about 10 mins cranking it still would not start, normally i have no problem starting it after the fuel has been pumped up to the carb. To be honest i can't remeber when it was last run. but the sticker in the window informs me the MOT will run out in Feb 2005. I have run it around the yard since then and i apretty sure I have started it this winter although my memory is not what it used to be. The brakes where replaced for the last MOT and the fuel pump was replaced this century and is a sealed unit. The petrol is a few years old not sure if it can go off (i must check there is some in there next time i am down the garage), but i could not smell any even after the 10 mins cranking. The garage is dry.
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sounds like no fuel is getting to carb, i know it sounds silly but makusure thers petrol in the tank, ive tried starting it on an empty tank sounds like what uve described.
otherwise i think its ur pump??
im sure someone else will give you some better advice.
regards
Chris
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cheers i'll have to check that petrol thing, wasn't quite sure if they needed it because it did not seem to use any, in fact i can't remeber putting any in for quite a few years :oops:
I know when i first got it, it stopped working after a few months so i just left it in the garage for about 4 years with the battery disconected, i eventually decided to get it going and after checking everthing else come to the conclusion that it needed a new pump, i put it in and reconcted the batery and it started. Come to think it it acted in just the same way then as it is now.
Do Fiat still do spares for the Bis?
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Bruce a quick job to get it going is to jury rig a gravity feed fuel tank.It's more than likly to be the pump .
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I'll try and get down to look at it today, if it is the pump I'll have to try FIAT to see if i can get a new one. can't be anything big because it was running fine a few months ago, besides i've just gone and bought a new set of wheels for it, so would hate for it to be beyond economic rapair as i also have the bits i need to make it pristine.
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well just got some good news, i can get a fuel pump from my local auto factors, they have one in stock :) going down to double check that i have fuel in the tank. I'll take my camara down with me and take some photos
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Yea had fuel, so bought the new pump, and i also got an inline filter this time. so hopefully that will make the pump last a bit longer :) Tried the FIAT dealer first but they did not have one, there is one on ebay but that is in malta. My ambition is to get the car on the road for summer.
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Come on my son you can do it :wink:
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fuel dose go off top it up with some fresh if the othere stuff is a fue years old
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I've bought a filter for the pipe, i'll fit that first and i will be able to see if any fuel is getting through before i do anything else.
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it wont work if u just check the filter u need to take off the output from the pump to check if it working
my inline filter was full of fuel so i thought it was pumping but when the output was taken off nowt and the filter has a 1 way valve in it
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well the whole system is dry at the moment so the filter will be empty untill the fuel is drawn up, so i'll know if the pump is sucking or not.
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ok sorry :)
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next part of the story; put a filter in the fuel line and cranked it over a few times (quite a lot actually), still no sign of petrol, so remove old pump (genuine sealed unit FIAT jobbie). the old pump is not siezed and infact when i inverted it had petrol within, but as it was off anyway i decided to put the new pump on anyway, cranked it over again but still no luck. there is definatly petrol in the tank as i can smell it and the fuel gauge is still showing 1/4 full. next job i think is going to be the purchase of a petrol can and try putting more in there as the gauge could be wrong and i am only smelling fumes. I've got a spare pump now anyways :)
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try a new pump rod, if this has worn then you wont get any petrol,
im having maor pribs at mo, just renewed fuel lines, and had to put a new pump on, doesnt want to start and it plutters and makes horrible noises from the exhaust :cry: im a bit worried to be honest.
regards
Chris
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the rod seems OK as the pump was raised by it when the bolts where lossened. I'll try some more petrol first though, troubl is with me that'll take a few more days :)
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put petrol in but still no joy, i'm 99.9% certain the car will run if i can only get some petrol up to the carb. I'll double check the pipes next time i get a chance to go down the garrage, and i'll pop over to the fiat dealer to see if i can get a new pump pushrod, I have to go over there to get a new FIAT badge to use for the hornpush on my steering wheel. other wise i'll try the electric pump route, pity though as i have 2 perfectly serviable pumps one only fitted and the other only done a few miles.
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just ordered a new pushrod from the fiat dealer (the rod cost more than the pump!). The dealer have only recently started doing fiats but have been doing fords for many many years and the parts guy rekons worn rods were/are a common problem on mondeos. that'll be here in a couple of days.
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Unless you want a part straight away, order from Europe. A 126 pushrod from Axel Gerstl is a few euros.
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it shoulf be hear tomorrow, yes it would have been nice to save a load of dosh but i want to get it started as soon as pos so i can sort out any other problems. checked the pipes, there is a slight leak in the return pipe but the main pipe is sound and petrol is easily sucked up to the filter (did not such it up further so as not to get mouthfull), i'll replace both once the car is running but i doubt that would stop it working, must be the pushrod, everything else is sound.
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put in new pushrod and new pump still it does not work, and on examination i've wasted my money as the old pump and pushrod where fine (at least i have spares now). the car allways started fine before all it needed was the batery being reconected and it started, what could cause a fuel pump to just stop working? do fuel pumps for the 126 all have the same layout, i.e. is the delivery pipe allway to the front?
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bruce,check the return spring in the pump,visible from the push rod end,i have seen several that have a spring which has corroded away,the rod pushes up,but the pump will not return,they seem to suffer from condensation being perched up on top of the motor......
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not sure on the bis model but some mechanical pumps are critical on the spacer setup?
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cheers dave but that is not the problem, both pumps are fine and the one that is on the car now is brand new. could a damaged fuel line be the problem, if the pipe was split the vacum would be lost and the fuel would not be drawn up the pipe? can one access the fuel sender and delevery/return pipe feeds from within the car, or do you have to drop the tamk? common sense would dictate an access panel below the seat similar to the one under the bonnet to get at the master cylinder, but i can't see one anywhere in the manual.
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hi Bruce just done this a couple of weeks ago, you may have heard i broke down in wiltshire, it turned out my fuel lines (old orginal rope covered lines) had severed, i tested the pump that was only few months old that and nothing was being pumpe dout of it when ignition turned over, i wondered if fragments of perished rubber and rope had gone donw the line and into the pump. if the lines are split then their is no fuel pressure, regardless if the pump is working or not.
The way i changed fuel lines was by removing the rear wheel (by the tank) i only realised this was the best way after i had struggled removing the tank underneath, this will allow access to the tank, you will now see the filler kneck and breather pipe along with the fuel lines. undo the 3 nuts holding the tank up i would suggest not removing the whole tank, just lower it.this should give you a couple of inches to get the new lines slipped on.
if you find that there isnt enough space drop the whole tank out & sort the new lines, i went to halfords and got 2x 1metre legnth lines reinforced stuff without the rope. (note which wire is the sender tank unit thinging magiggy on the top of the tank) there are two wires with slid connectors on each. if you drop the tank out you will need to remove the interior panel inside the wing, which allows you to disconect the breather pipe and pull it down underneath the car to give you slack when re attatching back to the tank.
A trolley jack will help push it up to were it should be it helped me out alot gave me my two hands back!
if you want further instruction or unsure just ask m8
regards
Chris
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cheers chris, i'll try that. should have doen this first before i spent all that dosh on a new pump and pushrod. will the pump be the same as the one in the manual with the intake pipe towards the front of the car. or is it a case of "suck it and see"? also what is the situation on new tanks, mine is a little rusty on the outside.
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the pump is exactly the same m8,
Bruce im pleased u aksed about the diagram. in the manual this diagram is actualy incorrect, look at the fuel feed line it goes to the wrong pipe on the pump.
(http://www.dropshots.com/photos/73614/20060509/120115.jpg)
(this diagram is incorrect, the lines are the other way round) someone else will confirm this
with regard to a rusty tank, what i did when i took mine out, is degrease it with a rag and gunk then used a pot of underseal and slapped it on, most of it had come off onto my hands by the time i got the tank in, but its good stuff. You can buy a motor bike slosh sealent for fuel tanks for £14 from frost.co.uk which pours in and seals rust out, but mine wasnt bad i also stuck a magnet inside to get rusty bits out. i wouldnt bother with it. just get lines back on. should consider a few filter this will stop any crap getting in from tank.
Mate before you start ripping out these fuel lines (it might not be the fuel lines) get some old fuel line which is in good nick or buy new from halfords only £3.99 for 1m. disconect old lines from pump and attatch these new lines and submerge into a can of petrol get someone to try and turn her over, makesure the fuel lines arnt too long when you do this, just long enough to get into can of petrol. I disconected the fuel line from pump to carb and put the line into a small bucket so i could visually see the fuel being pumped out, as apposed to smelling it going into carb. if you are getting petrol its obviously your fuel line. in which case wip that tank out, underseal it and replace lines.
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i was going by this picture in the manual, but this appears to be wrong aswell:
(http://www.bruces-stuff.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pump1.jpg)
this picture from the parts book seems to confirm that the picture and diagram are wrong, although it seems the tank end is right:
(http://www.bruces-stuff.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pump2.jpg)
as the filter would obviously be on the inlet pipe.
that said my inlet seems to be ok as i could suck fuel up to the filter but my return pipe is definatly split, so i may as well replace both while i have the tank out.
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there you go m8, has to be return pipe preventing fuel from being sucked up get it replaced and i garauntee your BIS will fire up sweet :lol:
just to here her run, cut some of the return pipe off and get a good bit of it and conect it too in-fuel pipe on pump and put other end into can of petrol, at least it will boost moral once you hear her fire up.
regards
Chris
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thanks for your help chris.