Club126UK

Fiat 126 Chat => Fiat 126 Mechanical Problem Solving => Topic started by: smallcox on June 08, 2012, 12:19:52 PM

Title: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on June 08, 2012, 12:19:52 PM
Hi Boys and Girls, oh and Rusty,

Got back from a very wet Modified Nationals Show and had troulbe getting 2nd gear. Anyway removed the box and found the dog mesh for 5th gear broken and sitting in the bottom off the case stopping me selecting 2nd gear.
I have sent a e-mail to Bacci Transmision and awaiting there response as this part is under no load and does not explain why it broke, possilby not heat treated correctly, anyones quess. hope they will replace it other wise gotto get one machined and treated.
Can you guys help? my flexi couplings are needing replaceing about 40,000 mile old so can't complain but some ware on here there was a mod mentioned about different type joint like a constant volisity joint.
Anyway that or quality original coupling as the power will eat copy versions. Recommend a supplier of above will be greatful.

Have Fun Smallcox :P
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: dajwid on June 08, 2012, 12:26:04 PM
http://motomax.pl/eng/fiat126/instr_126p/instr_126_eng.html

http://motomax.pl/eng/index.html

Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: 1973/126 on June 08, 2012, 01:09:01 PM
 Oh man that sucks big time considering the price of them 5 speed conversions.
 Will be interesting to see if you get a reply from the supplier.
 At least you are the man who can fix it. Maybe you should make your own 5 sp. conversions kits and start selling them on.  ;)
 I think them tri pods are a good idea and considering the standard couplings would cost you about 28 Euros a pair they seem to be priced well at 99 Euros.
 
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: thepuddlejumper on June 08, 2012, 01:37:58 PM
Hi all I have the cv type joints fitted to my Gamine, I used to go through the normal couplings every 1000 -1500 miles must have been cheap repo parts.  I have had no problems with the new joints, I think Hudson Henry has the complete internal and external cv set up fitted to his 500.  They are available from most 500/126 spares suppliers or from the manufacturers.
http://www.fiat500vdlaan.nl/en/index.php have them for E119.50 on gearbox page near bottom. You can also find them on ebay italy.

Ralph
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on June 08, 2012, 02:19:33 PM
Hi Boys and Girls, oh and Rusty,



How very dare you  >:(

So I rang smallthing to give him a blast then console him . But it was so sad hearing an "almost" grown man crying !  :P
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on June 08, 2012, 03:23:12 PM
Ok so I stop CRYing now,

CV joint company has already sent a E-mail to confirm price and has informed me that this kit is used on a heavy van so the kit is more than up to the job. So happy days.

Here's the good news, but the bad news will follow. :o If I purchase 8 kits it works out 81 euros a kit and 30 euros postage so if anyone wishes to order these kits drop me a post/mail, now the bad news no kits are available until July :cry:

smallcox

Oh Bacci Transmision has the part I need so hopefully they wont stich me up, as we know them as a quality company in motor sport. I will keep you posted ;D
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on June 09, 2012, 06:07:58 AM
So the dividing the shipping cost between the 8 that makes it about 85 euros or £69 at todays exchange rate per set of couplings, now that has got to be a bargain. Can you put me down for 2 sets  :)
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: 1973/126 on June 09, 2012, 07:20:14 AM
 1 set for me as well please!
 I`ll PM you regarding payment etc.
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: Amateb8 on June 09, 2012, 08:05:06 AM
After my coupling episode at RR last year, kindly put me down for a 2 pairs please. One for my red Bis as well.
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on June 09, 2012, 10:54:04 AM
I see there is a interest in these couplings and for the price can see why.

Remember those that wish to have a set, only if 8 or more are ordered do they work out this price which is about the same price off a decent set of original coupers. Starting price is 98euros plus postage.

If you interested please pm me because as soon as there avalible I will be ordering them- however many.

£69 pound per set if Rusty working are correct for 8 sets. I can bring to Retro rides for those attending.

Ps this was the response for quality from the supplier-

Fiat 126/500 tripod cv joints are not available this moment. We produce them from time to time only, to fill up the gap between our basic activity.
We plan to make some at the beginning of Jully. I will inform you.
The joints we use for this item comes from 1,3 tonn Ford with rather strong engine. So it works without any problems in such a small vehicle like Fiat 126 or old500. Driveline knocking always appear in used gearbox and differential. Tripod joints could be a source of such a noise only in case when water and sand come into a joint, through a broken joint boot.

Cheers all,  :P
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: thepuddlejumper on June 09, 2012, 12:41:32 PM
Put me down for a set as well. Sorry make it 2 sets Fraser wants a set for his 126 as well

Ralph
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: gsxr126 on June 10, 2012, 01:41:28 AM
Ditto: Rusty, Amateb8 and PJ - put me down for a set as well - if its not too much trouble.

Would I be correct in thinking that this mod would eliminate the leaking from the axle seals ???

I like to have at least 2ltrs of oil in my gearbox but the leaking out the axle seals is a bit of a pain :$

Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: bis13 on June 10, 2012, 05:42:15 PM
these kits are for the wheel side only to replace the silent blocks, hudson henry has fitted the dual ended kit you would have to ask him how he has got on with these.
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on June 11, 2012, 09:58:29 PM
Just got a response from Bacci Transmission.

The part require is only a small part but have been quoted 163 euros :o

this is the response from above-
in attachment the proforma invoice for the spare part.
> The gearkit hasn't never change since a lot of years; we didn't have
> any report about mistaken parts or mistaken steel used or thermal
> treatment.

I ask them to wave the cost as quality company and now waiting there response :P

I'll keep you informed
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on June 12, 2012, 09:23:28 PM
So I got a response and they offered a discount to date so totaling 136 euros :cry:

Man that sucks. Well something is better than nothing I quess and they are always polite, just don't tell the wife :) :) :)
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on June 26, 2012, 05:44:29 PM
I think my English seems to be a problem to Racci Transmission, either yes they know there is a problem and treating the joe public like muppets or just in the wrong trade.

I have sent 8 E-mails to respond to a problem with there gearbox kits as the spline to spline fit on the second part they sent me is in question. However they only respond with-never had problems with our parts. See some recent responses below

Hi Giulio,
Have you tried these two parts together as I have mentioned below and do you find the tolerance on the splines acceptable?, That was the original problem I was asking. It is not the layout I am concerned about it is the spline to spline fitment of these two parts that worries me. As I have explained this part shattered on my gearbox and now installing the part again you sent me is not a good fit.
Regards Steve

On 26.06.2012 07:21, Giulio Dialti - Bacci Trasmissioni wrote:

    Dear Mr. Cox, we've produced all the same layout since a lot of years without any problem on the couplings. Best regards, Giulio Dialti ----- Original Message ----- From: "smallcox" <[email protected]> To: "Giulio Dialti - Bacci Trasmissioni" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 3:46 PM Subject: Re: Richiesta/Ordine [www.bacciromano.com]

        Hi, Giulio, No not worried about the grooves made when grinding the teeth this is not the problem. (I understand the process) The part you show in your attached photo to me, it is the splines themselves, they seem undersize because when you fit the 5th dog ring onto the 2nd gear splines the spline fit is very, very loose. You can rattle to two parts on the connecting splines. I beleive this should be a sliding fit with minimum tolarance between the splines. Try sliding the 5th dog ring onto this part in the photo to see the problem. I know the 5th dog ring needs to move on the splines to engage 5th gear but the tolorance is sloppy at best. Thanks Steve On 23.06.2012 10:17, Giulio Dialti - Bacci Trasmissioni wrote:

            Look at the attached photos, please: when we make the teeth for the 2nd fixed gear we must touch the hub spline for the 5th dog ring, but there isn't any possibility to avoid this problem as the toothing is made by a spline shaft hob. Anyone hasn't never had any problem.


Well you get what you pay for, but then again they sure know how to charge ???  you have been warned

Regards Smallcox
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: Pete126 on June 26, 2012, 08:30:59 PM
After read there replies Steve, I think for 600 Quid (so its not cheap) bacciromano.com should start listening to there customers if they have a problem with the gearbox kits they produce, That's how companies improve their products.
But it seems like they only want to get hold of your money,
I don't know of any Factory that produces parts that never have any Failures, they ought to just own up to it and send a replacement part out FOC.
There just taking the P*ss Because they know your over a 1000 miles away and not likely to knock on there door.
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: dajwid on June 26, 2012, 08:40:52 PM
have you put this info on the Facebook page, there must be someone in Italy  ;)
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: bis13 on June 27, 2012, 12:03:29 AM
do you think that most of these 5th gear conversions are on cars with not much torque/power and that is why they have no problems? i know you treat your car with respect but your engine does pack a bit more oomph than many modded engines. they sound like they are complacent in their attitude and need to work on customer services a little, sorry to hear that you are having a nightmare with them can you not get a part made to your spec over here?   
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on June 28, 2012, 10:12:01 PM
Ok, so I get another E-mail as below, noted not answered my question again-

When i speak about layout i'm referring to the whole gearkit layout and we've produced always in that manner.
If you want a more professional modification, we have the 6 speed gearbox.

Reagrds,
Giulio

Yes I think I will spend thousand on your gearbox conversion or not, maybe build a gearbox for a fraction of the price and it will work.

Yes I can except that the extra power is a problem for there performance kit but,,,,,,,,, the question was do you beleive the spline tolerance is acceptable? I'am not after a freebie but wondered if there tolarance went out on producting these parts, I believe the converstion is a good design and the parts are off good quality it was just the tolarance on the spline was questionable.

I know the extra power will break bits but the parts should meet a required standard and therefor they will not respond to the question. Bless them :P

Smallcox
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: amybethcarr on June 29, 2012, 05:07:31 PM
Dear all,

I just wanted to say that I am completely fascinated as to what you are all talking about!!! It all sounds extremely exciting, and I find myself wanting some even whilst being entirely in the dark as to what they are.

Think I will stick to getting mine on the road first, however i look forward to joining in these conversations in a few decades  ???

x
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: bis13 on June 29, 2012, 07:56:49 PM
yeah i get your point and i suppose with your engineering experience you can answer the question yourself the more movement the bigger the chance of it failing in effect although its a new part you are fitting it might as well be an old worn part as that is what it will behave like, i feel for you mate as there is nothing worse than being where you are at this point in time.
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on July 04, 2012, 03:59:01 PM
Hi fellow 126er's and Rusty, hehehe :P

Just e-mailed the cv joint manufacture and they have informed me the raw material has been delivered and mid July should be ready. When I get a confirmation will let those know.

Cheers Smallcox.  Happy birthday to me, Happy birthday to me. Did I mention its my birthday today :D

Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on July 04, 2012, 05:58:06 PM
Hi smallbit and a very happy birthday to you   :wave
The only bloke I know that has the body of a child and the mental age and grumpiness of a 98 year old  :o :P :o

Have a good one and keep us up to speed on the couplings , the drive ones that is  :$
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: Emin on July 04, 2012, 08:35:38 PM
Yea, happy birthday!..
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: Amateb8 on July 04, 2012, 09:13:46 PM
Happy, Happy Birthday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: Pete126 on July 04, 2012, 09:17:02 PM
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m152/pedro126/7f17de40.png)
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: bis13 on July 04, 2012, 10:52:22 PM
happy Birthday Steve!!!
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: kalsig on July 04, 2012, 11:08:34 PM
Over here in the States we're marking your birthday with big celebrations and fireworks. I didn't realize you were so well known here.   Happy Birthday
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: Hazey-n-Marc on July 04, 2012, 11:51:28 PM
Happy Birthday
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on July 16, 2012, 05:12:22 PM
Good News Joints are ready, No Rusty not the smoking type you bad boy :$

Can those still interested PM me there order. Once ordered you will be entering in a contract that if you try to worm out off (Rusty) my personal bouncer will be round to bore the hell out of you :P

Regards Steve  8)
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: Pete126 on July 16, 2012, 06:38:02 PM
Noo-Noo-Noo Don't send Rusty Round :o Just one question Stevy Baby aren't there 2 sizes, thickness's of drive shaft? or am I suffering from Dementure :$
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on July 16, 2012, 06:42:11 PM
Not an expert on 500's but aren't all 126 shafts the same size?

I know the coupling are smaller on 500's, but these are for 126, any experts know
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: thepuddlejumper on July 16, 2012, 08:16:04 PM
Happy birthday Steve from Bonnie Scotland.

Ralph
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: michaelodonnell500 on July 16, 2012, 09:28:03 PM
Quote from: smallcox on July 16, 2012, 06:42:11 PM
Not an expert on 500's but aren't all 126 shafts the same size?

I know the coupling are smaller on 500's, but these are for 126, any experts know
You're both right.
There were different sizes for the drive shafts, the main diameter of the shaft shanged, but not the spline end.
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: Darrell on July 18, 2012, 09:24:28 AM
I'd be keen on a set of those joints as I have a pile where the rubber just squishes out the sides.

I was thinking of getting the old rubber out and using some sort of resin like they use in those cast your own rubber stuff.

 
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: michaelodonnell500 on July 18, 2012, 10:56:04 AM
Quote from: Darrell on July 18, 2012, 09:24:28 AM
I'd be keen on a set of those joints as I have a pile where the rubber just squishes out the sides.

I was thinking of getting the old rubber out and using some sort of resin like they use in those cast your own rubber stuff.

 

I had considered that before. I had access to a few more machines at the time.
That is why I never got round to making one, seemed easier to buy a tripod kit!
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on July 19, 2012, 01:57:53 PM
hi guys, ok just went onto the cv joint website and to me it would appear that 1set only does 1 wheel. my comp has crashed so will have to confirm with supplier monday now. check yourselfs and what do you think. i noticed in the fitting instruction [parts in kit]. doing this message on the boys wii. cheers steve
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on July 22, 2012, 03:00:32 PM
ok, all sorted and CV JOINTS on there way ;D



Please pm me who wants to collect/post/meet at retro rides in 4 weeks.


Steve
Title: Re: It only broke
Post by: smallcox on July 27, 2012, 12:25:23 PM
CV joints have been arrived. £70 set

PM me to advise collection or retro rides