Club126UK
Fiat 126 Chat => Tuning & Customising 126 Models => Topic started by: Rusty's Uncle on May 26, 2012, 06:51:17 PM
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Not a job I was looking forward to but I have a 499ccs crankcase (Fiat 500) and one from a 126 652ccs that were both in disgusting condition. The 500 one came with a job lot over 25 years ago and got dumped in my shed ever since and the 126 one came from another forum member who was going to scrap an engine that had been left outside for about 15 years. They are both pretty sound needing only minor repairs. I started working on them at about 6.30am , took acouple of breaks & finished about 5pm . Hours spent washing with petrol, scraping and brushing followed by Autoglym engine cleaner and a pressure wash. The 500 one has come up quite well but it looks like the 126 engine will have a distinct "rat look" :$
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Ciao Rusty!
I'm also on my engine. Today I got it finally dismantled. Now it will need a lot of money a little bit of time.. Next step is to start cleaning.. :-X
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss196/tatex1/Fiat%20126%20-73/IMG_3299.jpg)
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Tate that already looks clean to me compared with what I have just tackled :D :D
So I did not get any stick for posting "engine cleaning" in the tuning section. :P
Set the wheels in motion this morning for two of my engine rebuilds. My scored 126 "new" barrels from last years engine disaster are in for reboring & the oversize will give a 662ccs engine. This engine will get an alloy sump, Bis crankshaft, my original Abarth camshaft, electronic ignition, lighter flywheel, uprated clutch, sports exhaust and a cylinder head from a 594ccs 500R that was prepared by Middle Barton Garage and is as yet untried by me but looks promising. Just to be boring I will start with a standard carb for start up but a Dellorto fzd could be fitted later.
Also took in the 500 crankcase to have it bored out to take 652ccs barrels. I will need a strengthening / spacer to go under the 126 barrels . I see that Nanni do them but any ideas on other suppliers / manufacturers welcomed. Any back street engineers out there ? This engine is intended to be the "Wolf in Sheep's" :o . Stock on the outside but with naughty bits ;D
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Rusty man is this what you are after?
Half price compared to Nanni.
http://www.500mania.it/ns/index.php/store_gbr/prodotti/engine/cylinders-and-pistons?p=3
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Would that spacer that 1973 put up need to be bored to match the base of your overbored cylinders? Dont know but just a thought.
Have you done any comp ratio calcs. I heard that 10.5 is about the max you can go on a stock style engine. Might be worthwhile calculating this before you buy a head gasket.
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Rusty man is this what you are after?
Half price compared to Nanni.
http://www.500mania.it/ns/index.php/store_gbr/prodotti/engine/cylinders-and-pistons?p=3
I knew that you were the Lad for the job ! ;D
GSXR , I have ordered the one that I hope is the right one and as they list the spacers for different oversize bores I am assuming that they are made to suit. As for compression ratios I am just going to wing it as both of these engines are going to be experimental, actualy more mental ! I know that the 594 ported head has been skimmed by a bit over 2mms and I am going to fit my much worked upon on 499ccs head to the 652ccs "Fiat 500" engine. However before I fit them I am going to check to see how the combustion chambers line up with the bores so there may be further work there that may relieve the compression. So not wanting to do things by halves I thought that I might as well rebuild a stock 126 engine with all standard parts then I remembered that I have a part rebuilt 499ccs fiat 500 engine tucked away so I will probably finish that one as well ;D
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Rusty, we always knew you were "actually more mental" but i love what you're doing with that motor. I went to an italian republic day meeting on the weekend and IMHO a 650 engine looks wrong in the back of a 500.
If the combustion chamber is smaller than the bore I would leave it alone as you want to retain as much metal as you can in the head, especially the 499 thats had port work done. You cant really change the shape of the chamber in that head and the smaller the area covering the bore, the greater the force will be exerted on the piston, if that makes sense. I once mucked around with chambers and created hot spots everywhere. When it comes to modifying heads " a little means alot and alot can mean very little" as in a junked head. Just my thoughts....
As for comp ratio, I suppose you can always pull the head off again and stick a copper gasket under it, but a 5 minute math exersize gives you great peace of mind.
Oh yeah, before i forget, if you have the head apart, get a three angle jobbie on the inlet valves. You'll thank yourself in spades if you do, especially on those engines.
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If the combustion chamber is smaller than the bore I would leave it alone as you want to retain as much metal as you can in the head, especially the 499 thats had port work done. You cant really change the shape of the chamber in that head and the smaller the area covering the bore, the greater the force will be exerted on the piston, if that makes sense. I once mucked around with chambers and created hot spots everywhere. When it comes to modifying heads " a little means alot and alot can mean very little" as in a junked head. Just my thoughts.
OK I will leave it alone and see how it goes. I have ordered the spacer , I think , as I went through the process in english then after I paid I got an e-mail all in Italian.
Crankshafts fitted in the two 126 engines. Camshaft & timing chain on one.
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When can we look forward to a ' rebuilding engines' workshop?
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Daj you are welcome to pop in anytime, I could do with an apprentice ;D
Things are moving on . The spacer for the 652ccs 500 engine arrived today so fantastic service from 500 Mania. Bis crank and Abarth cam in one block , standard crank & cam in the backup 126 engine so far. Big result was finding that the 594ccs 500R engine had a "hot" cam fitted . Only identifying mark is 70 stamped on the side but it has a higher lift than the Abarth cam I have. Could be another Abarth cam similar to the one Alfons showed. Has lift of just over 0.3" on each lobe and looks to be hardened cast steel. ;D
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Following the Haynes book of how to do it have now got to pistons , barrels & con rods. Just been fitting new piston rings which I think is a bit like extracting a fuse from a UEXB :o
Oh the tension !
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Hi Rusty, I'm sorry, I do not know the mark "70" on a cam...
for cleaning enginge parts I use alternately different means: break cleaner, a brass brush and detergent... ;D
And, of course, a lot of handcraft... ;) that works fine.
besides: Currently I'm building a engine based on a 500D-crankcase with 600ccm cylinders using similar spacers. It shall be a quite good copy of an Abarth engine using many genuine Abarth parts... With Solex 34PBIC carb on special valve cover, oil pan etc. etc... ;D
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Alfons that engine sounds a good project so good luck with that. My engines are doing no miles on 2 gallons of petrol as so far I have used that much petrol to clean parts along with Autoglym engine cleaner plus all that scrubbing & brushing.
So far I have assembled a standard 652ccs engine with no ancilleries or tinware. Waiting on my bored out 500 crankcase and rebored 662ccs cylinders for the 126 engine but have prepared some parts in advance so I can move on quickly when I get those bits back. I rang the company today to check on progress . My work is next in line I am told, they just have to finish the Lamborghini engine :o
The engine rebuilds were supposed to be an outdoor summer project but "rain stopped play" almost ! Then my wife insisted I removed the engine fron the big table in the conservatory when we had family round for Sunday lunch, I thought it made a nice centre piece but she would not have it ;D
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Bits now back from the machine shop so some of the more interesting work can begin ;D
The engineer spotted a small hairline crack on the base flange of the 500 crankcase so had to have that welded.
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ever thought of sandblasting the blocks? we do blocks at my work and they are like brand new in less than half an hour
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doh! don t talk about sandblasting to rusty he might blow a gasket!
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why sand blast?? Soda blasting is the right way... :$
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I would love to find someone local who would do some sort of blasting / cleaning at a resonable price but it seems that in this neck of the woods all of the firms seem to assume that you are minted or desperate. So when it comes down to it I just have to bight the bullet and get on with it :$
Got onto more interesting stuff today . I had already put the crankshaft in the bored out 500 crankcase so offered up the 652 barrels & pistons. At TDC the piston tops were about 1.5mms above the top of the barrel :o
I anticipated this problem and had been trying to think of a good solution for the last couple of days. I had a couple of potential solutions in mind so set off with a shopping list this morning. Had only gone a short way then remembered I had the solid copper head gaskets that I had made some time back so just bought a tub of Swarfega and headed back home. Result ! the copper is about the right thickness and just had to do a bit of fettling to fit them to the base of the clylinder.
Then got onto the rebored 662ccs 126 engine which now has Bis crankshaft & rods, Abarth camshaft, 500 lighter flywheel and an alloy sump :)
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Shame you couldn`t take it up to 666ccs, it would have been just right for your little De ville.
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Good Work Rusty :good:
Shame you couldn't take it up to 666ccs, it would have been just right for your little De ville.
I always thought you were from the dark side ;D
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So after the summer recess , that is the period when the sun is suposed to shine and my wife gets me onto all of those essential non car , no fun jobs I am now back on the case. The 652ccs Fiat "500" engine is all complete apart from clutch & flywheel. 126 syncro gearbox with 500 bell housing all ready so removed the engine & gearbox from the 500 yesterday . I know that some of my "chums" on here enjoy the pains I go through so I used my tripod hoist to take the weight of the engine and positioned it to swing back from the engine bay. That went OK then I did the same with the gearbox which had an axle stand under it . Disconnected everything and the axle stand leant back a bit and as I slid out from under the car as a very dirty gearbox swung out and clouted me in the back of the head :$
Probably knocked some sense into me because I had been thinking that I could get it all back together by the weekend but the engine bay had 40 years & over 100,000 miles worth of crud all around it so I spent today with a scraper removing layers of it and still lots more work to do ;D
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I shall be inspecting your work at the weekend ;D
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Quick diversion this morning as the sun roof catch on the DeVille had busted last week. Got a new metal one from Chet at Ricambi Fiat 500 Spare Parts so all sorted. Forgot to mention that I thought the starter ring had gone on the 500 but in fact the starter motor mounting flange had broken and the motor was hanging down on two loose nuts, oops :$
New engine will have an after market starter motor support bracket which connects to the gearbox :)
So engine bay scraped & I got my big wallpaper paste brush and a bucket of petrol and "washed" the whole engine bay. Wiped it all round then followed up with Autoglym engine cleaner & a good hose down. Sprayed the appropriate areas with stonechip then a top coat of dark blue. Cleaned and tidied up the wiring with a reel of loom tape so it is all getting there. The jumbo & heater hoses were a bit scruffy so I bunged them in the washing machine with a pair of my wife's knickers :o
Seemed to work OK on hot wash ;D
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So trying to push back the envelope has kept me right back in the stationary department :cry:
Engine & grearbox all fitted in the 500 & I knew that the battery was getting a bit dodgey so tried jumper cables, recharging battery etc. Engine will turn a few times then it all stops. Bought a new battery and it is still the same. The starter motor was a "recon" purchase friom eBay so thought it might be duff so rebuilt and fitted another one. Same thing happening. With the plugs out the starter whips the engine over but plugs in it is like a hydraulic lock after a few turns :(
So was Smallcox right when he said that a 500 head on 652 barrels would be a too high compression ratio or have I got 2 poor starter motors here. Some people run these engines with a head so skimmed the piston hits the valves so how come this one wont fire up with an unskimmed head ?
Anybody got any tech data on later starter motors as I wondered if they had more power :)
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Hi Rusty. Im sure you have , but valve timing check. Your no fool, (nor am I),but I once put the piston in one of mine 180 degrees out, having convinced myself I hadnt. Symptom : it Knocked a bit.
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The good thing about this forum is that we get some clever guys & gals on here. After almost a week of wailing and much gnashing of teeth along with language that the BBC would not approve of You start to imagine all sorts of things and I wondered if I would have to take the engine out and do a strip down :o At the end of yesterday I was running out of ideas but it seemed to me that the ignition might be way too advanced. I had dismissed this idea because I had fitted a 123 ignition set up and installed it as per the manual. Then clever old Pete rang me last night , first thing he said was "It's your ignition timing". So with renewed hope I got on it 1st thing this morning, ignoring the 123 manual because I knew I was getting a good spark and just tried moving the distributor . All of a sudden the engine turned over fine with the plugs in but would not fire >:(
Then I noticed that it might work better if I reconnected the plug leads :$
It fired up straight away and ran really well so well done Pete ;D
I let it run for about 30 mins as the plan was to let the 10W/40 semi-synth oil have a good flush around the engine and get up to temperature then drain it and fill with the 10W/60 Mobile1 oil. I was amazed as the oil came out almost black :o New oil now in , clutch to adjust then it is off round the block :D
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Whoopee :wave We won't have to push it up the hill again ;D
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Went round the block a few times then clutch would not release so guessed it was just settling in and needed more adjustment also the throttle was sticking after the car has been standing for some time. I could feel that the engine had a lot more "grunt" but the gearbox was quite stiff when changing gear but I was confident that it would free off when the oil circulated. The engine starts very well so reset the clutch and went on a 20 mile run. The throttle cable did not free off as I had hoped and about 8 miles out the clutch started playing up and was on the floor so the car was a pig to drive. Made it to my destination then turned for home with fingers crossed :$
I made it just ! as I pulled onto my drive I had to hit the brakes as the clutch woud not release and that stalled the engine about one foot short of a tree :o
Now the clutch cable is almost new as are the clutch components . Bright blue sky on Satuarday morning and thought it would be a great day for a run. Got under the car and tightened the clutch cable by only two turns of the nut. Started the car , put it in gear and no drive. The clutch was just slipping. Got back under took off the bell housing cover plate to see if any bits fell out but all looked good. Released the adjuster nuts by one turn and I now had drive. Put a big spring on the throttle and set off across town, engine running great, gearbox now sweet. Got about 2 miles then back to no clutch and a tricky drive home and just made it again. So the good news is that the engine and gearbox are all good but the bit in the middle is giving me jip :(
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Oh. :( Im trying to visulise the problem. Is the release spring up to it. As for a nut needing such finite adjustment sounds odd, could the cable of the clutch also be sticking?