Club126UK
Fiat 126 Chat => Fiat 126 Mechanical Problem Solving => Topic started by: Lina on August 21, 2011, 11:20:48 AM
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Morning all!
Well, I've been rambling about this subject in my 'introduce yourself' post as I've made various attempts to rectify this niggle.
When I got the car two weeks ago, first was popping out of gear, and as described a few times here, gear change was like stirring a bowl of porridge/marbles! So after much reading up on here, adjusting the gear mechanism fully forward to no effect, and after discovering it was missing both the bushes for the gear selector rod, I turned up at the local Fiat dealer (to many giggles!) and ordered the bushes, which I fitted yesterday.
Despite the procedure being a complete pain in the a*** and breaking many nails in the process (bye bye nail polish, hello swarfega!), it finally got done, and although my gear change now feels LOVELY, it's still....popping out of first! Grr.
I had a good look at the flexible joint between the selector rod and gearbox and it seems fine, although I'm not yet prepared to let it off the hook (as the gear adjustment IS already fully forward and I can't think of anywhere else the length of the rod would 'stretch' that much??), I'm now really suspecting the selector bits in the gearbox.
Oh, by the way, it's NOT popping out of third - the only other gear that's a little tricky to find is reverse, but that's only when it's cold, it seems, and it stays selected when I do eventually find it. Also, first does stay in gear if I keep pushing on the gear lever - okay pulling off in a straight line, not so much fun trying to turn as well!
So, yes, next in line for investigation is the selector mechanism in the g/box. Just looking at my Haynes, I'm guessing I'm looking for problems with the detent balls or springs?
I'm not about to attempt this straight away, and certainly not until I'm armed with as many facts, tips and nuggets of wisdom from the experts here and much reading online. Yes, I'm mechanically minded, but haven't done much grease-monkeying in the past 10 years or so, so my confidence is a little wobbly, to say the least! And I'll need to find some ramps, as this will be done outside, on the street!
I hope I've explained this as clearly as poss! :D
So please, any helpful hints, past experience, tips to stop gearboxes landing on your head etc would be greatly appreciated! ;D
Lina
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Hi Lina and welcome!
Usually the only reason a 126 will pop out of first gear is if one or more teeth are worn or broken on the first gear or cluster gear.
The first/reverse gear is a straight cut gear with no synchromesh so it is easily damaged if first gear is engaged while in motion. Otherwise it is just possible that the hardening on the gear teeth has worn through and teeth are no longer straight- this can also cause your problem.
I think you will need to pull the gearbox out to solve this problem- my suggestion is to drain the oil, remove the gearbox, then if you remove the top cover you can see the first gear and cluster from the top.
If you turn the input shaft with the top off you can check the condition of first gear- i'm guessing you will need to strip the gearbox and replace the first gear and cluster gear.
Good luck- it is not too difficult to strip and rebuild a 126 Gearbox and it will be all worth it in the end! :D
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Ditto Damon , If you give yourself a bit of time and just follow the manual it is not too hard a job. My gearbox just went into meltdown today at Retro Rides which made for an interesting journey home :o
Other guys had a few probs also so I will say more about it on the Retro Rides thread :)
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Darn! I was hoping you guys would say just adjust the do-dah on the wotsit that's attached to the thingamigig on the near side of the oojamiflip and no need to drop the gearbox...! ;D
As for taking the top cover off to 'see' the damage, is it that simple for replacement of these parts? Should I get myself one of those gearbox kits if first gear's the problem or just the gear and cluster, if available?
Okay, going to be on the back burner for a while, so will update you once I muster up the courage (and time!) to get on with this! In the meantime, this will just be one of the 'quirks' of my car ;)
Thanks for the input guys, :D
Lina
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Have you checked your gearbox mounts for wear? Just before you pull the gearbox out.
It might be easier to buy a good second hand one, if you can find a good one.
Keep us updated!
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Darn! I was hoping you guys would say just adjust the do-dah on the wotsit that's attached to the thingamigig on the near side of the oojamiflip and no need to drop the gearbox...! ;D
As for taking the top cover off to 'see' the damage, is it that simple for replacement of these parts? Should I get myself one of those gearbox kits if first gear's the problem or just the gear and cluster, if available?
Okay, going to be on the back burner for a while, so will update you once I muster up the courage (and time!) to get on with this! In the meantime, this will just be one of the 'quirks' of my car ;)
Thanks for the input guys, :D
Lina
Hi Lina,
Sorry that I neglected instructions relating to the adjustable doo dah thingamijig but I just wanted to prevent you from spending too much time chasing your tail.
You can only inspect the gears through the top cover- it will need to be stripped down to replace them. You will need a first gear, cluster and gaskets at a minimum- possibly also some bearings too.
If you have reasonable mechanical aptitude and a manual it should be relatively straightforward- there are no special tools required and it is pretty difficult to incorrectly assemble- the first 126 gearbox I rebuilt came as completely disassembled (due to the same problem you are experiencing) and it wasn't too difficult to work out the jigsaw with the Haynes manual.
Good luck!
;)
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Afternoon folks :)
Thanks Damon for that - shame about the thingamijigs... :D
Okay, so gearbox out it is then... sigh! What I am considering now is getting another gearbox and putting that in... keeping my one out and work on-able in my own time, then just have it as backup. Will any 126 g/box fit? A friend from the forum may possibly have one that I might be able to beg him to sell me, but it's a bis one. Are they interchangable?
The only reason I'm thinking along these lines is so I can limit the time it's off the road and not feel so pressured to get the old g/box fixed in a hurry! Also, there are a good few other things that need doing before the dreaded MOT in October... Also, I would feel much more confident in dropping one gearbox and slotting in another!
Cheers,
Lina
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Hi Lina , the final drive ratio on the Bis is higher so would not make for a good ride with a standard air cooled engine. Worth having one if you are thinking of going down that road. Funny how the boxes are affected by temperature. The one on my 500 pops out of 2nd when cold but is fine when warmed up .
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Hi Rusty, thanks for that - I'll keep my ear to the ground for an aircooled box then. Also, before I do anything I really must take 1973's advice and check those mounts - if anything, it might explain the fully extended adjustment situation?
Once that's done I'll probably stick a 'wanted' post up - you never know, someone may be sick and tired of tripping over one in their garage and be delighted to rehome it...! :D
As for the wear to first/cluster, will the damage be clear to see do you think? I must admit, fixing it myself will feel jolly fabulous I bet! ;D
Lina
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The final drives are interchangeable between boxes plus with a Bis box you will get a rear casting with a built in reverse light switch should you want to fit one :)
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Hi Lina,
Sounds like a plan- you could always rebuild the 'spare' gearbox you are going to put in to your car...
The problem with secondhand gearboxes is that you don't know what problems you are inheriting unless you drive it first.
My suggestion is- find a donor gearbox- strip and rebuild it (if necessary) and then if the worst happens with your maiden gearbox rebuild at least you will be able to return to a situation no worse than your current one...
On the flip side you might find the donor gearbox is ok- but at least you will know it inside out! ;D
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Hey all - phew, what a week!
Thanks for all your advice, again!
Well, the plan was to get it up on ramps this weekend and take my time taking the gearbox out... but so far I've hit two walls... First is trying to sell my previous car, which means cleaning etc and is taking up far too much time, and also that I've been given advice not to put it on ramps for this job... so I need to check with the experts here! I've been told that taking the gearbox out while rear engined cars are on ramps doesn't leave any room for the wheels to drop in, so hence can mess up the suspension??
Also, if you say the final drives are interchangeable, does this mean I could get a bis gearbox and put in the final drive from my old box? Or is this a much more complicated process than it appears??
I'm still not going to really know the score until I have a look inside the g/box...
Otherwise, I've been given a little backup car to use now, so there's not so much pressure to have the 126 as my only mode of transport - that plan has pretty much gone out of the window now - so gives me much more time to work at my own pace on this current problem.
...I've prepared a nice space on my dining room floor for the gearbox... ;D :P lol
Cheers again!
Lina
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Hi Lina , not sure where you are getting your "expert" advice from but you are are more likely to mess up your hair than your suspension as you are going to have to get your butt under the car to get the box out.
You can leave the engine in situ if you wish. Jack up the engine a little and get a good strong rope up to the engine cover latch eye. Remove rear panel & bumper then the gearbox . You can support it then roll it out on a small trolley jack.
Final drves are interchangeable :)
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My gear change is ropey changing down to third gear and quite obviously first gear (1973 model no syncro).
If i blip the accelarator on the down change the gear change is seamless, i am currently practicing heel and toe on down changes and it is working well.