Club126UK
Fiat 126 Chat => Fiat 126 Mechanical Problem Solving => Topic started by: Rusty's Uncle on February 24, 2011, 06:50:53 PM
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Although I wrote some bits on king pins a while back it was all based on experiences with other cars. So I thought I would have a go at the king pins on a set of 126 stub axles, just for fun of course ;D
First impressions are that it is not a job to be taken lightly and you need a number of specific items/tools to do the job. I cannot stress enough how important it is to grease those king pins . even if you do it every week or month . They almost always wear out due to lack of greasing & the pin will rust accelerating wear on bush and pin. I have done a complete strip down on one stub axle and it is ready for a little paint and reassembly. I will post some pics and a blow by blow account along with a couple of interesting things I came across [-/
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I've done my share Uncle Rusty. I found that the reaming was the most difficult part follwed by getting the frost plug at the bottom to seal. We actually resorted to braising them in at the finish to get a good seal.
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Further to that I recall the greatest problem in reaming them to size was getting the guide for the parrallel reamer to sit correctly because of the burring caused when pressing or punching the sleeves in.
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Oh Allan you are so right about getting that seal on what I call a core plug (your frost plug) but when I cleaned up one stub axle I noticed that someone had come up with a good solution that I have shown in the photo. The plug is actualy a shaved down ten pence piece . Was it a bribe for the MOT inspector :o
Or was it just ecconomic sense because when I looked on eBay for a 22mm core plug they seem to be selling for just under £2 with postage so using the small change out of your pocket seems a good idea ;D
The other picture shows the main components stripped down . Interesting point here is that this one had a top & bottom grease nipple as opposed to the usual single top grease nipple. Was this a later FSM modification ???
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The ones with two grease nipples are usually done by people who have repaired their king pins and want to make sure in the future that the bottom/top bush gets enough grease. I bought a refurbished left hand one and that too has two grease nipples while my original has one. Regarding the core plug:If it doesn't want to 'stick' into place then you may need to bend it in a bit using a vice, a bit of pipe that the plug sits onto and a fairly large ball bearing, that way when knocking it into place it will flatten out better. I also put two very small spot welds with a MIG welder onto the edge of the plug just to make sure it doesn't move out while greasing (it can be easily grinded off if the need arises to pull it apart.). My refurbished ones have that bottom plug spot welded in too. I payed a fair amount for the refurbished one and the grease doesn't want to come out at the bottom bush while the one i repaired gets all the grease fine.
When reaming it helps to keep one of the old bushes in so that the new bush can be reamed parallel.
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I have seen them with more than the regulation grease nipple also. We tried everything to kee[p the grease from oosing out the bottom but in the end settled for braising to get a good seal. We found that if you dont have a good seal at the bottom the grease leaks out and does not go to all the grooves as is required for thorough lubrication.
Allan
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The two nippled stub axle now is complete with new king pins andit was all very interesting , at least to a Fiat nerd like me :D
Firstly the extra lower grease nipple is not a modification on this one as there is an extra small boss on the casting to take the threaded hole.
The king pin set I used was one of the modern Polish ones. First surprise was that the steel backed bushes were a light press fit into the casting in fact I could virtualy push them home by hand. Next surprise was that the king pin was an exact fit in the bushes without any need for a reamer. I am guessing that they are now made to such close tolerances they have eliminated the need for reaming. Tapped the king pin into place with the handle of a screwdriver. Had to use a hammer to drive in the self locking pin that secures the king pin. I had already used a small grinder to tidy up the base where the core plug locates so popped that in and clouted it with a hammer using the old king pin as a punch.
So job done and so much easier than I anticipated [-/
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That's great, so the power steering will be working again then :P [-/
Yes it does seem as if the new kits don't need as much reaming as the old ones (mine only needed a minimal amount luckily). What type of grease do you use? (I use lithium 00 or 01).
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Still half a tin left & over 20 years since I bought a brand new 126 Bis :D
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So after getting on the old 126 learning curve and getting that first stub axle sorted I thought that I would have have a go at another one and this time see how long it took . Part of my thinking was to determine if the ones that you can get on eBay are a good buy. So I dug another one out of my shed , single nipple type, and bunged it in a bucket of old deisel / petrol to soak overnight. Then used my vice etc to press out the top bush. This one came out easier than the others & I think the soaking may have helped. Then drove out the self locking pin with a pin punch ( punch made by me when I was a apprentice in 1967 !) The pin came out OK but was a bit squashed for some reason. I then got a big bar and a club hammer and tried to do what I did with the last one, drive the king pin down in the housing to push out the core plug at the same time. I hammered then I hammered some more. No movement so I wondered if the core plug had been welded in, cleaned away the grease to find that there was no core plug which explained why the king ping was very worn on the bottom bush. So I tried hammering the pin up then down , nothing , had a rest & hammered some more. Tried heat on it twice , nothing :oops:
Then wondered If I could hacksaw through the pin using a brand new high speed steel hacksaw blade. After 15 mins I gave up , I discovered later that I had got about 1mm in. So went back to the hammer but this time I used an old king pin as the punch located at the top I could keep my hand out of the way and give it an almighty thump. Did the trick And when I got the pin out it looked like it had been damaged by the self locking pin not being aligned with the groove on the pin. Swear box is now getting quite full & perhaps those eBay units are good value after all ;D
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Sorry to drag up an old topic but i am wondering whether to buy some reconditioned stub axles or give this a go myself. I dont really want to have to do any reaming as i dont have the right kit so has anyone else had any more experiences to add with the newer king pin kits. This seems like good value: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-126-STUB-AXLE-KING-PIN-BUSH-KIT-BRAND-NEW-/280831457333?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4162dbf835
Thanks,
Tomasz
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But these look Cheaper ;D
http://allegro.pl/zwrotnica-zwrotnice-lewa-lewe-fiat-126p-el-maluch-i2150585228.html
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If you do the work yourself it's a good idea to put in the additional grease nipple similar to the replacements, makes greasing easier and they tend to last a lot longer.
Ralph
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Tomasz , the set you showed are the ones I found the easiest to fit ( remember you have to remove & replace the top suspension bush) and I got mine from the skfan guys.
Daj , it is amazing that the Fiat people took so long to realise that nipples are best when they come in pairs :o
Those ones are designed to have the lower nipple and I am looking out for another one , stub axle that is, to have a set :)
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Anyone have an allegro account? Can they give that seller my email address?! Pm me if so. Thanks for that!
If that falls through I can get the pins from skfan. might take the ones off the spare car I have so I don't have to rush the job. I will def add another nipple at the same time and replace the bushes too.
Thanks guys!
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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=52.350291,0.567922
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Thought it was worth reviving this thread as it seems a popular topic at the moment :)
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Thought it was worth reviving this thread as it seems a popular topic at the moment :)
No poo! :cry:
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Thanks
yes got mine going in for a kingpin on the 5th July.
Well
Front spring + carrier, plus kingpin, wheel bearing and shock absorbers. Might need new front brakes, cylinders, shoes and flex pipes yet. Who knows... :o
At least it runs now.
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Just been this thread after completing the repair on both sides over a couple of afternoons. Got it down quite quickly now and easy job really :). I love how simple this car is to work on!
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Funny thing coincidence, I have just renewed my king pins and bushes.
I have a question, my steering hubs are of two different types! One has a threaded bottom plug the other has a small core plug, can anyone shed any light on which model used which type of hub?
Also the hub wit the core plug had a 3mm ish shorter king pin.
The replacement pins are solid (from Axel Gerstl) while the originals are hollow.
With reference to some of the comments in this thread about a second grease nipple, I think the idea was that one grease nipple would be sufficient because it is situated above the top bush, so that the lower end received it's grease via the hollow king pin, and provided that the lower plug was securely fitted, both ends got sufficient lubrication. However with solid pin all bets are off in that respect.
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I have yet to come across a solid king pin and I guess they would be fine with the later two nipple set up but if you have just the top greaser then I would see that as a problem. From memory most of the king pins I have worked on either had the screw in lower cap /seal or had the thread there but core plugs had been fitted. Even with new old stock king pin sets I have never seen one that came with replacement screw in caps but always core plugs. I like the screw in caps as they can't blow out with the pressure of the grease gun.
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Hi Rusty
My 126 is currently in Wey Lane garage in Chesham having the kingpin done and I have insisted that they reuse the screw in caps.
If these are so hard to come by maybe it would be a good idea to get some remade?
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I second that idea!
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Third
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One side of mine had screw in cap... the other didn't... Both were pretty much destroyed on removal though as they weren't screwing anywhere!
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I have a set of the Fiat kingpin tools 8) Bought them back in 80's so I could replace on wife's 1966 500 :) Went motorcycle racing in Poland 1987 and bought a few refurb kits back with me :)
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Is there enough clearance between the bottom of the Kingpin housing and the wheel for a grease nipple?
Wonder if a castellated plug with a grease nipple fitted would be silly.
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Sorry if this has been asked before, but how often are people greasing the king pins? I haven't looked at mine yet :$
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I do mine around every two months just two or three squirts with the grease gun but I'm obsessed with them as I don't really ever want to do them again ;D