Club126UK
Fiat 126 Chat => Fiat 126 Mechanical Problem Solving => Topic started by: nrg19uk on January 03, 2011, 01:51:50 PM
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hi folks
im just installing my rear bearing on my deville and i seem to missing the part no 5 in the workshop manual a spacer, have they been incorporated into the seal or do i need to get one?
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Have you stripped out the old bearings yet because if not I would recycle the old "collapsable" spacers. The new ones can be a bit of a nightmare and much has been written about them :oops:
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the old bearing had been bodged to fit with nylon cord round them to hold them in place. when you say collapsable spacer i had what looked like a oil seal from the engine! i will post a picture if i can find it.
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/nrg19uk/IMG_0035.jpg)
i have put the new bearing in with the metal snap rings but it dont look as if the seals will fit in aswell???? have they changed the design todo away with the snap clip?
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(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/nrg19uk/IMG_0036.jpg)
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(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/nrg19uk/IMG_0832.jpg) side 1
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/nrg19uk/IMG_0829.jpg) side 2
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/nrg19uk/IMG_0830.jpg) new seal
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Had to dig all the manuals out to refresh my memory , so starting from the outside going inboard you should have : Oil Seal , Bearing , Collapsable Spacer , Bearing then Oil Seal with that small Spacer running in the Seal. Without that spacer (no.5) you would be in the poo as you would not be able to tension the bearings properly and the flexible coupling will butt up against the hub plus you would not have a real seal for the bearing grease. You can run the set up without the collapsable spacer, makes it a simple taper roller bearing set up, but not without that no. 5 spacer.
I can bet that whoever assembled those rear hubs did not have the nows or capacity to collapse the big spacer , so end float , then stupidly leftout no. 5 which would be a short term road to disaster ::)
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thanks for your help rusty when you say collapsable spacer are you talking about this? because it looks miles to thick for it to collapse!!
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/nrg19uk/IMG_0833.jpg)
from what you have said i dont need this?
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/nrg19uk/IMG_0834.jpg)
it looks like im gonna have to order a pair of no5 spacers!
The mot garage said the silent blocks have grooves on them and there was serious play, it was only when i started to pull things apart that i see how bodged it all was.
so im trying to put it all back together blind really all the new bits i have look nothing like the old stuff! i dont even know which way round the bearings should go in after looking througth manuals im still none of the wiser!!
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DON'T PANIC
Ground Control to Major Neil !
Take a step back and a deep breath [-/
Close your eyes and imagine that your 126 is a Lunar Module and the only chance you have of survival is if you get those rear wheel bearings assembled and ready for blast off ::)
If Mission Control can get those no. 5 Spacers out to you then all you have to look at is the sequence of assembly of the hub internals , look at the Haynes section drawing. You must press in the taper roller bearings with the small inner part protuding outward on both sides of the hub so that when the nut is tightened it brings the bearing faces closer in contact with the middle taper rollers thus taking up the play. The spacer you show looks very uncollapsed (is that a word?) as the centre middle section would show signs of kinking. Bad news is that you need something like a 1 metre bar and socket or a torque converter wrench to get enough force to compress the spacer .
Good luck on your mission [-/
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hahaha ground control ;) this is major headache neil [-/
im using the autobook manual for diagrams probably why mines looks so diffrent! i have had a look at the manuals in the subscribers section. :oops: i will look for the haynes diagram!!
that spacer in the pic is new but i have a meter long bar and impact driver bits so thats not a problem..... sounds a weird setup squishing metal. 8)
i think my lunar module must be leaking or ive been stareing at the computer screen too long but the bit about the bearing just scrambled my brain lol </* :yikes:
if you have the number 5 spacers that would be great!! just tell me how much they cost and postage etc and ill paypal you the money.
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Hi Neil , I may have some spare spacers but I will need to check that out. Might be worth trying Ricambio again if you are looking for a quick result [-/
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not to worry ive just ordered a set! thanks anyway.
right now the headaches gone lol ;D
i have the roller bearing in the wrong way round if the small inner has to go on the outside, can you see in the picture?
im starting to think about this spacer between the two bearings if it has to be tightened up that hard with a bar surely its gonna stress the bearing? and would be better without it? or is there a major purpose for it?
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Personally I can not work out what the function of the collaspable spacer is supposed to be and after pulling my car off of a jack as I tried to get enough force on the big nut & I nearly got squashed instead of the spacer :oops:
So I just left that one out and it has been fine for over 2 years.
A simple way of working out if you have the bearings fitted the right way around in the hub is that without the oil seals fitted the inner part of the race should be free to fall out. Then when the whole thing is assembled the big nut pushes the drive coupling onto spacer no. 5 then in turn pushes the bearing assembly together to take up any play. Without the collaspsable spacer I treat the assembly like the front wheel bearings . Tighten the nut until the bearing just starts to "grumble" then back the nut off a fraction of a turn till it runs free [-/
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Finally some language I can understand!
Collapsable spacers! Torque! On a wheel bearing???
Tight then back-up is what I have always done and hub stayed together even after getting beaten when I had the wobbly on the ice which bent the suspension arm!!!
Done over 20000 miles...
Biggest issue on the rear hub is locking the nut! Make sure it's locked!!!
It must not move at all and be well and truely staked.
Tell-tale signs of failiure of the nut are vague steering, changes in direction under acceloration and de-acceloration and lack of power as brakes make contact with drum :oops:
Re-use of nuts...not advisable...I tried that when replacing a cushdrive hence I can report the above tell-tale signs of failiure!!!!
Now cue the real experts :P
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You never stop learning here :D
Darrell , I read your post & thought that you had screwed up :oops:
My 500 has the castleated nut & split pin set up on the rear hubs so checked Haynes & it is split pin on the 500 & staked nut on the 126 so spot on there mate [-/
One tip for the 500 set up is bend the split pin ends around the outside of the nut rather than the easy route over end of the shaft as the spring in the end of the drive shaft is more likely to get damaged .
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Modification for 2011 planned:
Change 126 hubs to accept castle nuts.
Will use a 500 hub as a template as to where and how to drill the holes :P
But also best to measure 20 times and make sure they didnt change other specs on the hub.
I think the staked nut thing is a stupid idea, especially as I seem to be changing drive shaft couplings every 10000.
I know it's only a few quid every so often however when my new lathe/milling machine arrives it'll cost me the price of castle nuts only [-/
With a bit of luck I shall have a better drive shaft coupling too. Unlike the UJ conversion I am thinking that fancy neopreme or whatever it is called as a replacement for the rubber...like they use in suspension bushes :oops:
On a tangent...wonder if they do bushes for our cars as 500 ones have to be purchased and fitted soon as all suspension is in for powder coating.
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Can you not just drill a hole where the Stake goes? And use a castle nut? A lathe? He must be posh lol a cordless and a work mate ;-)
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just a thought but isnt there a couple of different types of wheel bearing kit for the rear ? have you got the correct one neil? its just that it seems to read that they dont bear any resemblance to eachother (the old and new bearings?).
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I think the old one must have been the wrong one! There was piece of nylon wrapped around the bearing because it didnt fit! This one I've got now looks right but the spacers too big I think but if it's suppose to be crushed then its fine. Anyone got a picture of the older style spacers?
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Well I've got my spacers now :-) ordered from www.fiat500ricambi.nl on the 4th arrived today! How bloody quick I'm still waiting for parts I've ordered from the midlands before Christmas.... Weather permitting I'd be out with the tools tomorrow.
( I managed to lock the post???? )
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well i managed todo my bearing today ;-) on the offside of the car the bearing was pretty good condition
how ever i wanted to change both so i stripped it down, i was very surprised to find it complete and sitting correctly! the spacer uncollapsed, diffrent oil seals, and the spring clips in place! on further inspection the spacer is smaller, the oil seals are smaller!!!
i will post pics up later im getting in the bath!!
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Pics of the hub or you getting into the bath ????
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right heres the pictures dont panic i havent been in the bath all this time lol
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/nrg19uk/IMG_0835.jpg) new bearing and oil seal in hub without any spacers.
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/nrg19uk/IMG_0837.jpg) new bearing, oil seals and spacer.
(Bearing details: C107 8896/10)
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/nrg19uk/IMG_0838.jpg) old bearing including metal oil seal bent up as it was the only way i could get it out, snap in clips, middle spacer and rear spacer.
(bearing details: Poland CBK-171 FI T-1 T)
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/nrg19uk/IMG_0839.jpg) the old and new middle spacers (the old ones not squashed???)
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/nrg19uk/IMG_0840.jpg) here you
can see how much smaller the old spacer is.
just measuring from a rule the oil seals are also smaller but only by less than 1mm, but im sure that makes a big diffrences as it all fitted in the hub nicely with the spacers and snap in clips in place.
from what ive been told by the suppliers there is only one bearing kit availiable for the rear of a 126 ac
but further investigation suggest other wise....
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FIAT-500-126-REAR-WHEEL-BEARINGS-FULL-KIT-BRAND-NEW-/200436307862?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2eaaef5796
this one looks like the same as the old one
http://www.fiat500ricambi.com/fiat126/?categorie=Rear+axles&product=AA1016
and this one is my new ones!
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Well I got the car mot'd today it failed on a tiny hole I missed when welding and a couple of bulbs that decided the two minute drive down the road was too much for them [-/ and the washer decided to pack up on me but that was just a fuse!
So I've gotta get the welding gear back out and sort a oil leak from the rocker then I'm back on the road! It not all bad news classicline insurance fully comp agreed value of 1000, limited mileage of 3000 plus breakdown cover for 135 pound :-)