Club126UK
Fiat 126 Chat => Fiat 126 Mechanical Problem Solving => Topic started by: edsaysyes on December 12, 2010, 06:47:04 PM
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Just bought a 1993 air cooled. Not the best of heaters for this weather . I have a slight sense of warmth very close to the dashboard vents when the car is moving Pulling in or out the two levers on the dash board helps get more cold air Turning on the fan achieves a fantastic icy blast. Looks like I have great air conditioning for the summer. Lovely warm hand brake though. Anyone suggest where to start to find the problem. Would be nice to drive without the ski suit on. Just joking there is background warmth on a journey but nothing noticeable from where it should originate Would be nice to have it coming out of the heater in noticeable quantities.
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Check the thermostat flap is closing when the engine is cold as the blast of warm air is great up till the engine is at operating temperature. Normally I find after that the air needs to be throttled back anyhow.
Remove the tunnel and check for obstructions although I find it hard to believe something would completely stop the airflow as you describe.
Also check the cold air flap is closing as you may be pushing all your hot air into the boot!
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I have been working on mine today, and found that the foam seals that seal between the outer plastic vent covers and the bodywork were not in place.
I also shone a light inside the engine bay, peered in through the outer vent and saw that the rubber seal is not that effective and there were gaps.
I solved these gaps with silicone sealer and then replaced the foam to seal-up against the outer plastic vent cover.
The reason I decided to examine this is because the 126 air cooled seems to have a habbit of pumping whatever fumes that are in the engine bay, into the car.
My Dellorto FZD is a great carb but when cold she backfires once or twice. After these backfires I always seem to smell fuel in the car, stands to reason that a backfire reverses the flow of air through the carb momentarily and will mean some fuel vapour will end-up in the engine bay.
My theory is if all is sealed, the only source of odour can be from the head itself thus I feel I have eliminated one possible source of the fumes.
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Do NOT used silicone sealer on engines with an ECU with and exhaust sensor.
I have been researching ECU's etc and found out that silicone sealer destroys the exhaust sensor :o
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If your handbrake lever heats up then the hot air is getting into the tunnel. One easy test is to pop off the rectangular connecting hose between the the tunnel outlet section and the heater inlet to see if you have got hot air there . In my experience the flaps and levers on the heater controls break or jam quite easily but they can be fixed with a bit of care [-/
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From my experience the heater 'switch' is at the rear of the tunnel.
The plastic switches do not cut-off the airflow but only re-direct the airflow up or down.
There is a flap that opens to let cold air in and this may not be closing
I still suspect the thermostat is either not present and the flap is staying open or
The thermostat is stuck open
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Hi Edsaysyes,
First protocal with this one is to stop all those draft as this will have a major impact on interior temp. :(
Get some mastik and find all those small holes in the front dash/footwell area, places where the wiring comes through and the steering shaft passes through, any small hole will badly affect temp (try your mordern car open the window 1 inch and feel the difference), also the plastic clips that hold the dash trim in place will pass cold air into the car at speed, replace the foam that holds the cold feed flap in the centre off the bulkhead and once sealed your more than half way there.
As the gentleman above mention make sure the flap on the engine cowl is shut when cold and all the heat will pass into the car. If you want to be flash you can remove the ducting above the rear suspension and cover it with insulation and bolt back into place. How warm is that [-/
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Possibly a good purchase for air-coolers and 500's
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-FASCETTE-STRINGITUBO-CON-COPPIGLIA-400-mm-FIAT-500-/110558688910?pt=Ricambi_automobili&hash=item19bdcfb68e
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-FASCETTE-STRINGITUBO-CON-COPPIGLIA-500-mm-FIAT-500-/120595082317?pt=Ricambi_automobili&hash=item1c1406ec4d
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I used standard clamps as the originals were fairly rusty (still have them though). It will always be a bit warm around the handbrake lever as there's only a thin layer of carpet that blocks the hole there. I changed all of the sponge thingys around the tunnel as the originals perish after 20 or so years. Make sure the gear lever rubber boot doesn't have a hole in it either. As mentioned before if you close the passage from the boot then the hot air won't go into the boot. You'll only experience good heating if you go for longer trips i'm afraid....
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The removable front tunnel section on my 500 had rotted away at the base . I found that the bottom part was the same as the 126. So I drilled out the spot welds that held the top to bottom sections of 500 & a 126 ones and pop riveted the good 500 top onto a good 126 base. To get a good seal when I refitted it I found some 12mms wide self adhesive draught excluder which stuck nicely onto the new paint [-/
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Looks like I need a dry day to crawl about inside and examine the tunnel area. I have had this car on a long run as it covered about 700 kms before I got back to Germany from Poland. It actually was sort of comfortable temperature inside with good thick sweater on but could not find any heat comming out of any of the places it should come from. Thanks for all the answers and keep the suggestions coming
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Does yours have the little lever behind the drivers seat? Heater on/off
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It has the lever on the floor beside the choke. Two small pull in and out knobs above the radio position and the lever on the dash board at the centre vent that give air up or down Have not looked for any more heater knobs yet.
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No there is a lever on the top of the tunnel just in front of the rear seat
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Crikey You live and learn If I put all the info on this site in one book could I sell as many as Haynes
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I don`t think the later models have the leaver at the back. I mean the ELX. There is one next to the choke as you said.
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Do you know if they moved the flap to where the handle is as it would explain the nice warm handbrake but no warmth further down the system.
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Had a bit of a rummage today so here is a bit of air cooled heater control evolution. I could not find the spare 500 / early 126 choke & starter lever that I know I have so took a picture inside my car with the levers in the centre. On the nearside seat is a single lever for the choke on a car that would have had a solenoid starter and the manual heater lever at the back of the tunnel. On the far seat is a twin lever , choke on left and heater flap control right. Heater flap control connected to a cable to open and close the flap. Just in case you have never seen one , a picture of the flap duct & mechanism. I was always surprised that the flap is open with the lever pushed back toward the rear seat and closed so heater is off with the lever pointing forward along the tunnel :-
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Hi, Fiat 126 lovers,
I am 55, a new/old owner of the cutest (and my very first, long time ago) car.
After 25 years of marriage we got a Polish Fiat 126P made in 1994 as a fun presen,t cause we had one when we got married. Great people our friends! The day after, my Opel Vectra (that would be Vauxhall) was damaged on a parking lot and is still is repair. I am enjoying my daily ride and nostalgic looks from bypassing drivers in their fancy cars.
I also have problem with heating.
Yes, the lever between front seats is up, yes the thing in the tunnel does open, yes I can feel the warmth starts going into the tunnel from air cooled engine placed in the rear part of the car, yes, I fondled with knob,s but the windshield gets foggy if not frozen from inside and the interior is cold. I cant remember how it was with my first 126 back in the eighties. I do remember that me and my wife were traveling in all weathers, going to skiing and all, but I don't remember that we were freezing all the time.
What surprises me is that under the front hatch there is another tunnel, NOT connected with interior tunnel and a fan installed sideways that blows cold air into the cabin when button on a dashboard with fan icon is pressed.
I've red all that all of the people wrote but still can't get any warmth to windshield or cabin.
Somehow I believe that there MUST be a fan that helps warm air from the engine to get through the tunnel and through openings on the dashboard.
All I could get is an owners manual in Polish which I do not speak. Is there a FREE manual in English?
Sorry if I made grammatical mistakes, English is not my mother language, but we here in Croatia do not have 126 club. Also, I apologize for being so long - as there may be some rules for posts which I do not know - I repeat, I am 55 and this is the very first Forum I ever joined.
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Hi Pasko . Could not have expressed my problem my better then you did Describes everything perfectly so when one of us finds the problem we are both sorted
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Welcome Pasko, a small donation to this club gets you into the free manuals section.
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Hi Edsaysyes.
I saw you're logged in and I was hoping you of all will understand and reply. Thank you very much - now I feel as a part of a big family.
Somehow I feel that we will solve our problem sometime in May :)! I will definitely only than be able to get deeper into it since I do not owe a garage and find it quite freezing to be outside and dismantle our toy these days.
I am consulting some old friends that I know have had a 126 and also some heating engineers I work with but, honestly, do not expect solution soon.
If resolve the problem will advise immediately!
To the other nice person: What is small donation and how? Still do not believe using credit card on the internet is safe...
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Just a thought.
Mine is a 1984 aircooled, I do about 2 miles before the windscreen is nicely de-frosted.
It seems only the newer aircooled seems to have this problem.
Maybe there is no flap or the flap is broken to stop the air from the fan.
The fan in the front it to blow cool air no?
Maybe try tapie-ing the inlet to this fan closed for a while to see if it is any better?
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Hi Guys, This may seem like a stupid question but have you opened the Tunnel lever No 4 in the picture ???
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Hi Pasko , welcome to the forum . Enjoyed reading your posts . If you can follow this thread OK then checkout the items mentioned. It is a case of following the heat from the engine along the ducts [-/
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Pete, as we have learned the newer air cooled does not have the switch as item 4 it is a lever where the starter lever is on the older ones.
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I`m not 100% sure if none of them have it, or if it was just a mod on the one I had, but the flap was operated by the leaver next to the choke. Maybe we should get it confirmed by someone who has a 126EL. Bath126? I can imagine if it is operated by that leaver it could have come easily undone, or un clipped, as I remember it was a bit fiddly to put it back. Hope I`m not giving some incorrect information here. Don`t wanna be like Rusty :P
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Hi,
Lever 4 is turned properly, thanks. That lever differs in newer and older 126s but it is always somewhere on the tunnel in the middle of the car. Sometime it is behind the front seats and in newer ones, beside the chock lever (where the ingenious starter was in older ones). As mentioned since English is not my first language I am still going through all the messages in the thread with dictionary in my hands - some professional words are too much. Again, due to freezing problem (of my hands and ears, not the car) I will most probably continue to use my toy-car having frost outside and inside, and get into the problem in warmer times.
Will keep following passionately this topic hoping that global warmth reaches my town before I die from hypothermia.
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http://translate.google.com/# :D
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Thanks. Know about the site. Wish you could speak Croatian so you could laugh together with me on the results of translated text. If I would follow the translation I should probably build a submarine or juicemaker :D
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Now theres a thought 650cc juice maker Wonder how many oranges an hour it would do.
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Probably a hell of lot more than anybody need. And then, what would anyone do with such much frozen juice?
Brainstorming till tommorow
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Hi all,
Have quickly checked out that there's no visible signs of pipes loose anywhere in the heater system
Had to be a quick check in this temperature
So raises two questions If I have a hot hand brake lever does it mean the thermostat is working right and also I found a big diameter pipe going from the engine up to the bottom of the parcel shelf Does it do anything ?
As a last resort I have thought of turning the windscreen the other way round as the outside has less ice than the inside. Has anyone tried that before ?
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Great idea turning the windshield the other way - true - less ice frost outside than inside! Not tried yet ;D!
Anyway i am reading all these msgs mentioning thermostat and thinking - do we really have a thermostat?
Well, there is a 126 parked frequently in my street and I am trying to catch the owner and:
1. Ask him/her if he/she experience same problems
2. Ask to join a ride to see if there is any difference
3. If the situation in that 126 is better (or he or she already solved the problem) to find out the solution i.e. magic touch, a big secret, the final truth, great discovery, revelation etc.
In the meantime my Opel Vectra had been repaired and I'm driving it now, waiting for springtime to use 126 again for fun.
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As for the big diameter pipe, the previous owner of this mine 126, installed a flexible pipe with fan on the opened tunnel behind the front seats (ha, ha, like it is possible to do anything behind rear seats!!!) and was using it with the free hand to defrost the windshield glass, heat the feet or wherever else he wanted to get the warm air. Ingenious solution, but I didn't like it and somehow am sure my first 126 named Pasko was not such ice cold as this one now is. I know I was some thirty years younger but my blood circulation could not go SO wrong up to day.
Normal way for warm air from the engine is through the tunnel between seats to the hose under the cockpit and through the air vents... Don't know why it doesn't work
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Normally in this weather I would be tucked up warm in my Saab and turning the heater down but since Germany has decided winter tyres with snow flake symbols are compulsary then its parked up for a couple of months and my little 126 with its M&S tyres will ferry me around. Gives me a chance also to fit new polycarbonate bushes to the Saab suspension. Will need to get some heating in the 126 so might have to find a long extension lead to plug into the mains.