Club126UK
Fiat 126 Chat => Fiat 126 Mechanical Problem Solving => Topic started by: triantis on October 31, 2010, 07:32:25 AM
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Hi everyone,
My name is Sam and I've recently purchased a FSM Niki (same as Fiat 126). As i live in Australia getting parts and help with these little cars is not easy. I have very little knowledge on common problems and would like some help in solving a few problems with my car.
Okay so here's a rundown on problems.
- My alternator is only pushing 12.4 volts and drops to 12.3 volts when revving. (measured at the alternator). I have inspected the brushes and believe they are in working order. There is a resistor type setup within the alternator... im assuming this is the voltage regulator? What could be the problem? it looks like sourcing an alternator wont be easy as the engine fan in built into it.
- The second major problem occurs on and off. I am able to start the motor (650cc air cooled) and only rev it using the choke. If I press the accelerator the motor begins to slowly die down. Once i release the accelerator the motor will come alive again. Im not sure if this is somehow related to the alternator not charging?
Please HELP
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Hi Mate,
I cant help with your issue but parts can be brought from Turin Imports, and OS as well.. see the Top site catergory above.. I would also suggest making a donation and downloading a workshop manual or two
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Hey buddy, welcome to the forum. You'll find heaps of quirky Englishmen on here and a few Poles too..... Plenty of great advice though, great forum. As Skelz suggested a donation to download the manuals is a good place to start diagnosing your probs.
The voltage drop of 1 point shouldnt be an issue, does it affect anything? If the prob with the motor is intermitent i would look at points & plugs & leads first then see if carb is clean then check your fuel pump is working properly. Also check the air filter & clean. All stuff you can do for next to nix. If the prob is still there i rekon you'll need to look closer at ignition/coil etc... but it sounds like it just needs a proper tune.
Good luck with your niki - treat your gearbox with care and you'll enjoy pretty much trouble free motoring [-/
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Are we getting enough Aussies to have a Oz Chapter of Club126 ?
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Thanks guys. I think the manual will be a good start.
gsxr126 "The voltage drop of 1 point shouldnt be an issue, does it affect anything? If the prob with the motor is intermitent i would look at points & plugs & leads first then see if carb is clean then check your fuel pump is working properly. Also check the air filter & clean. All stuff you can do for next to nix. If the prob is still there i rekon you'll need to look closer at ignition/coil etc... but it sounds like it just needs a proper tune.
Good luck with your niki - treat your gearbox with care and you'll enjoy pretty much trouble free motoring thumbs"
- The voltage drop is not really my concern. I am concerned about the voltage its putting out... Isnt an alternator meant to push 13.5 - 14 volts???
- As for the running issue. This is the second time this has happened. The first time it occurred I changed over to a new battery and did a service on the motor (plugs, fuel filter, oil). The problem was gone for two days but has now come back.
- Also where is the oil filler plug for the gearbox? there is a square type bolt at the front of the gearbox (on the side just behind the clutch). Does this have to be filled until full?
Why would the motor run strong using choke and then die under throttle? Would it be too much fuel? As i touch the throttle the revs drop lower and lower until the motor just stalls. I am not even able to take off. How do i go about checking the following:
1. Carby - Do i just attempt to clean this out?
2. Ignition System - What can be done in regards to dizzy and coil?
I thought I would ask you experts on what could be the issue as it may possibly be a common problem.
Thanks
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Tally Ho old boy , a quirky englishman here </4
Make sure you have got the tension right on the altrernator drive belt as that also drives the cooling fan . Also the carb has a habit of working loose which might explain the choke thing . Probably worth stripping carb mount to check gaskets & for cracks in the bakelite spacer. Carb base flange can deform if it has been overtightened.
Must fly now as I think I hear the Queen calling me & I have not ironed my best bowler hat ;D ;D ;D
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Triantis,
Does the voltage drop at the ignition coil when engine is revvvvved. It sounds like the alternator is not charging as 12.4-12.3 is Batt volts and this amount off volt drop is nothing. try this test again with the head lights switch on and take a volt reading again, if the volts are still 12.3 then the charging system is doing something but still not right as you said 14 volt is the average.
Now that Rusty old english man is right that an air leak on the induction system would cause power to drop off when the pedal is floored so check all as he mentioned but if the coil volts is dropping below 8 volt approx then a week spark would also cause the ignition to give a week spark (bit like a rev limiter) but this also would have some mis, mis, mis firing, so faulty carb or induction system would be my quess at this stage.
Smile you own a fiat [-/
Smallcox
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I'm smiling but will be much happier with a car that drives. [-/
After a couple hours of playing around with the motor I have sorted out the issue of not being able to build up revs. Cleaning plugs, carby, ignition etc. made no difference. My gut feeling was power, so I decided to focus on this area. After connecting a fully charged jumper pack to the battery the problem was gone. She did not miss a beat and revved right out. So basically my alternator is not doing it's job in providing enough power for the motor to keep running.
My question is... Where is the cheapest place to get a new alternator? Im in Australia :)
Or... Is it worth attempting to rebuild it myself?
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Pretty sure that you can get the parts you need for a rebuild fron the 126fan guys in Slovakia. They ship quite a few parts to Australia [-/
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Who are these guys? Do you have a contact?
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Korius had a similar fault turned out to be the wire from the altenator to the starter motor :)
http://club126uk.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4947.0
126Fan guys are in the Top Sites at the top of the page
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Thanks for that Pete126, i will check mine.
Has anyone considered upgrading to a higher rated alternator? Im thinking of making a custom bracket and using an alternator off a Holden Commodore (85A unit and very cheap). Would this be possible? I would make a bracket to mount the alternator above the current belt and install a larger belt around all three. Leaving the current alternator in place to work the fan.
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Good to see you found your problem Sam. The commo alt idea would probably work but i rekon just recoing your original should do the job.
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gsxr126, I will speak to my local auto elec. I am half tempted to just buy a new one as I have the feeling that I might get a half assed job getting an auto elec to recondition it. I also have a spare motor and gearbox (complete). A good auto elec should be able to make 1 good one out of two units
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Doesn't the engine fan run off the alternator shaft throught the rear of the alternator on the air cooled models? If so then a Commodore, or most other types of alternator wouldn't work as the rotor shaft is just not long enough at the rear.
Get one of your two rebuilt, would be easier. Martin at 126fan can supply all of the bits you (or your auto sparkie) needs. I use these guys pretty much all of the time, you just have to think ahead and be prepared for the delivery times - normally it takes about 1 -1.5 weeks for items to get to me here in Perth. The exchange rates are pretty favourable for us at the moment.
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D'oh just re-read one of the later posts where the fan issue had been identified - oops! :oops:
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Aaron. Can you please give me the details of these blokes who can get me all the parts I require for a full rebuild. How are they price wise? What would I need?
Regulator
Brushes
Diode setup
Internal parts?
Bearings?
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Ok this may be a long one and go over 2 posts.
126fan's website is here http://www.126fan.sk/eshop/. Click the Union Jack on the left side to get it into english. Now you're going to have to be a little understanding of the descriptions because English is not these guy's first language. Most of the items you are currently chasing will be under the catagory "Electricity".
The bits you are chasing are at these links;
Regulator http://www.126fan.sk/eshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=117
Brushes http://www.126fan.sk/eshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=136
Diodes http://www.126fan.sk/eshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=69
Bearings http://www.126fan.sk/eshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=95 and http://www.126fan.sk/eshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=96
Other bits Stator http://www.126fan.sk/eshop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=128
They don't seem to list the rotor which I think is about the only other bit.
Including the stator that adds up to 72.80 Euro which is about AUD 102 at the moment. Add postage to that and you'll be looking at around $140 or so.
An alternative to look at is buying a complete new one such as this http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Fiat-126-Fiat-500-Lichtmaschine-alternator-Neu-/260613361170?pt=Autoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r&hash=item3cadc44e12 which will save on labour costs which you need to add to the above price. Contact Martin at 126Fan through the CONTACT link and ask if he can supply complete new units as he may be able to better the price in the ebay listing.
The only other alternative is to contact the FIAT guys in Vic, there are a few down there who may be able to help with the bits and may have a re-co alternator on the shelf or a good used one...
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Another alternative is to grab your nearest Polish friend / workmate (I just happen to have one here is the office) and hunt around http://Allegro.pl - or a friendly polish speaking member on this website. You can get them cheap here but the language barrier may be a problem. This one http://allegro.pl/alternator-maluch-fiat-126p-126-elegant-gwarancja-i1264036441.html I'm told is a re-co one with 6 months warranty (but sending back to Poland will be fun). At 110 Zl that's about AUD 40. I'm told by my fellow worker that it there are 5 available in this listing.
But the downside is freight, he tells me it would be around 272 zl in air freight or 95 zl in sea freight (cheaper but you'll have to wait like 3 months)
A FIAT Mob I've spoken to previously in Vic which may be able to help-
The Italian Job http://italianjobauto.com/
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Sam, I'll see what prices i can come up with in Sydney but yeah the 126fan guys are the cheapest around. Just remember you get what you pay for. I have ordered a few parts from them and although the cheapest the parts werent the best quality. Depends on what your buying i suppose.
I just ordered a gb repair kit from a German mob for 118euro. I think 126fan sell them for 78euro but mine was a genuine fiat item.
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Aaron/gsxr126,
Thank you guys so much for your help and advice. I really can't beleive how helpful you guys are. I will look into all the above. I have never purchased anything from overseas so this its all new to me. I think buying a new unit is the way to go. It will probably work out to cost about the same as a rebuild. I would prefer to buy off someone in Australia if possible. Or try track down someone who knows these units and can do a proper rebuild with all the right parts.
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The trick to remember with os purchasing is postage Sam. Aaron's last post in this thread is a classic example (sorry Aaron), but over $100aud for postage for an alternator (ie: small package) seems a bit excessive to me. The gb kit cost me 40euro/$62aud in postage. I think you can find reasonable shipping charges, just takes a lot of research.
Buy a new one. You'll find that fiat specialists in Oz (well Sydney anyway) charge fiat specialist prices so buying a new will probably work out cheaper. I have a bunch of receipts i found in one of my nikis totalling $7000 on gearbox repairs :o
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I have found this website handy when trying to id bits and pieces
http://www.fiatclassic.com/HTML126/KATA126U.HTM#1128
and these guys http://webshop.fiat500126.com/?PATH_INFO=/sites2/view/4-1-versandkosten.html&
have got alot of gear.. looks like high end stuff..
I have made my first order from 126Fan... waitin for delivery.. hasnt been that long
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No offence taken. That's the problem with ordering from overseas. Large parts like body panels would be a real killer for us. The price I had was taken from the Polish post website assuming 5 kg of weight.
By all means, I agree try locally for the alternator first - there's probably a fair chance in getting one especially from a FIAT specialist. Use the OS option as a fall back or more importantly a gauge as to what the item should cost.
So far all of my overseas purchases have been the small fiddly bit items so postage doesn't add to the cost too much, having said that I remember my LHD parcel shelf that I got to even up the dash cost me $US7 but the postage was $30 to get it here......
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On the other hand my experience with the carby is a point in favour of OS purchase - I got a complete brand new one in my hot little hands about this time last year with a poorer exchange rate plus an spare overhaul kit for $150. Try getting your existing one rebuilt locally for that...
It's always a bit of weighing things up.
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Bugger, but just as i thought. Fiatorque the Sydney guru has no alternators to suit niki. He said he can reco one but would need to order parts after seeing whats wrong with it ::)
I'll try source one online for you but here's a thought - why dont you try getting stuck into your existing alt and try recoing it yourself. We've been saying buy new and use a mechanic but if your handy you might be able to save some big dollars.
And reading back thru this post - did you check the alt wiring and all the earth connections? Might be worth something cleaning these up. Rusty earth contacts play havoc with the electricals in nikis
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After speaking toa couple fiat gurus the way to go is to attempt to repair one of the two I have. With the parts available I am very confident I can repair it myself. The only problem is actually sourcing the problem. What I plan to do is drag it to a local auto elec who can sus out the problem and then do the repair at home. Fingers crossed :)
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gsxr126,
I have also been keeping an eye out on the internet for a brand new unit. My problem is that everything is in a different language LOL
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Hi I have plenty of Polish friends that would bring a new unit to the UK, but just looked up prices to post from here to you:-
I estimated 4kgs
http://sg.royalmail.com/portal/rm/PriceFinderResults?pageId=pc_sltc_rm_results&keyname=rmPriceFinderResults&catId=23500532
Blimey :- thats expensive to post, couldn't you pop over here for one :-)
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Yeah, when you look at that you can understand why some parts prices down here seem expensive. Also makes the shipping charges I've had on bits sent from both Poland and Slovakia seem quite reasonable. :-
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Just as an exercise, I obtained the shipping charges for the new alternator off ebay I stuck in one of my posts above (this one http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Fiat-126-Fiat-500-Lichtmaschine-alternator-Neu-/260613361170?pt=Autoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r&hash=item3cadc44e12). This was quoted by the seller at 42 euro to get it to Oz.
This would make the all up cost for a new one of just under AUD 175. Not too bad but they didin't mention whether it was be sea or air mail.
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Aaron, its air. Just bought my gb kit off these guys and they dont rip you on postage
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that price is not bad if it's air freight. I will consider purchasing that alternator. The only thing is I am not able to read through the add as it's not written in English (can anyone help?). I also have to question quality of the product.
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For future reference Yahoo's Babelfish should be your first port of call. Stuffing the text into this and translating from German to English I get this (it states it's new from the manufacturer Elmot):
Car of parts of logistics Our company exists since 1997 and specializes for the sale of new and using parts. Our Internet shop exists since 2002. We have already over 10,000 positive evaluations of our customers from all over the world, particularly by an effective co-operation with the courier partners. Opening times Monday - Friday 8.00-16.00 Saturday 9.00-14.00 European Union Ust IdNr.: PL 854-193-93-71 Address: Poczernin 35 73-110 Stargard/Poland Contact: [email protected] - we speak German/English We offer also different spare parts, depending upon customer ordering. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We offer: Generator new/directly from the manufacturer/ELMOT Model: Fiat 500/Fiat 126 Condition: Again/generaluberholt 1. The dispatch of your order takes place with the courier company UPS. The goods leave constantly our camp. In exceptional cases we reserve ourselves the right to realize the supply within 14 days. 2. The order is realized immediately after receipt of an email with the following information: - Payment means: by cash on delivery/transfer/personal collection after earlier agreement - Ship-to-address with telephone number - Auction number and Login A cash voucher is attached to the commodity. For interested one a calculation with proven value added tax is issued. 3. Our packages are insured. 4. After the supply of your order you should examine in presence of the Zustellers whether the supplied commodity is in intact condition. With determined lack you should fill out damage minutes. The Zusteller has an appropriate form. Only damage minutes made in presence of the Zustellers is a condition for the warranty claim. Terms of the warranty/return/conversion 1. New, original packed autoparts: A condition for the warranty claim is the collecting main of the duly filled out and signed warranty map in connection with the purchase proof/the calculation. 2. We carry warranty out for new parts. 3. Used parts are excluded from the guaranteeing and return. 4. If the supplied commodity for any reasons should not correspond, contact us please immediately 5. Conversion or reimbursement takes place only after receipt of the complaint. 6. Returns, by cash on delivery skillfully, are not taken back. 7. With returns that is to be filled out the supply settled form. 8. The back transmission costs are refunded only if the debt is on our side. 9. Loud consumer protection-set, the buyer has the right to return the bought commodity within 14 days after receipt. The return right is entitled to these buyers, who acquired an article in the offer format immediately purchase. The buyer carries the return costs. After the return of the commodity we turn to Ebay around the reimbursement of the commission. Account data: Account number + all necessary data are down in the email, which confirms the profit in the auction. The description of all auctions, settled photos as well as all comments are in copyright matters protected. In accordance with law gazette each utilization, in particular duplication, processing is inadmissible and punishable in electronic systems of the materials in all their parts without my agreement.
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Got my first package from 126fan today.. Highly recommend them
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how much did it weigh and how much was postage? also how long did it take?
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I have had a few items from them now... normally take between 1 and 2 weeks... postage varies .. Jump on the website and order then they will send you a quote on shipping .. I have spend $100s of euro with them ..I have had only one problem with a faulty exhaust I purchased.. I haven't been overly impressed with the response I received.. but the cost of postage does make it hard return faulty good..
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oh and shop around there are three or four 126 parts companies that have good english websites and deliver to Australia..
http://www.fiatclassic.com/
http://webshop.fiat500126.com/index.php/sites2/view/4-1-versandkosten.html
http://www.fiat500ricambi.nl/
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What did you end up doing mate ?
Im having my alternator currently checked over by a friend whos an auto sparky , hoping it will actually charge at idle unlike the current 1 Im using :(