Club126UK
Fiat 126 Chat => Tuning & Customising 126 Models => Topic started by: Rusty's Uncle on February 02, 2010, 12:40:37 PM
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I seem to have screwed up with the Panda 30 thread so going to try & post pics of a head I bought late last year [-/
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What are the two bolts next to the intake for? :oops:
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Which cylinder head is this one ???
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Having a few posting probs as this is the 4th time I have typed this . The two bolts are some idiots bodged attempt to mount the little baby I am posting a pic of. Reckon I can do a good pro / resto job on it though. The head was described as a Panda 30 on eBay but it looks more like a German 126 one that I saw a picture of recently. The inlet port is 30mms diameter (is it 28mms on standard 126? ) , Exhaust valve standard 28mms but inlet valve 1mms Larger at 33mms.
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That is the reason why I was asking. I also think is the German spec one. The Panda 30 head looks like this, with twin ports.
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The panda 30 head should have twin inlet ports and is the only head worth putting a twin choke carb on (one choke per port).
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Yes I took the eBay auction at face value as I knew who the seller was and the position of resposibility he holds in a long established club for small Fiats . Having never had my hands on a 30 head I was doing it on faith & trust so I got alittle bit screwed on this one . I am not going to name & shame because that is not my style because I think that what goes round comes around . On the positive side the inlet gas flows look very open and good gas flow features down to the valves so I reckon there is some interesting prospects & potential there. All part of the bigger picture 499ccs , 590ccs , 652ccs or 795ccs & Weber 26 , 28 , 30 DIC , Dellorto or Solex are all in the box . I just love my old Meccano [-/
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Rusty is there any chance this established forum for small Fiats is the 126 forum?
By the way a nice little choice you got there.
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No it was not one of the regular guys on this super forum. Although the head is probably not what it was advertised as I won the auction at £265 & it also came with a brand new set of valves which alone cost £56 . So with the Solex carb & manifold not too bad a buy I think. It would not be too hard a job to open up the inlet port to match the inlet manifold to get good gas flow. [-/
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All this talk of heads got me looking on eBay & saw the new 31 & 36mms valve set which were described as the largest you can fit without angling the guides & seats. So I bought them :oops:
Could be interesting [-/
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Rusty
I'm not sure what your head is, it has the squareness of the Panda 30 head but only one port rather than two, has anybody else come across this before? Maybe its an early aircooled Panda head </*
I have never seen a bis head, what are they like?
Nigel
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All this talk of heads got me looking on eBay & saw the new 31 & 36mms valve set which were described as the largest you can fit without angling the guides & seats. So I bought them :oops:
Could be interesting [-/
can you post a link from the seller of the valves to see if he has anymore of them?
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Rusty
I'm not sure what your head is, it has the squareness of the Panda 30 head but only one port rather than two, has anybody else come across this before? Maybe its an early aircooled Panda head </*
I have never seen a bis head, what are they like?
Nigel
Is it not the German 126 head?
Designed slightly differently as that's what the Germans like to do - take Italian things and try and make them 'more efficient'? Lamborghini etc etc...
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Yes the head looks exactly the same as that picture. So if the German unit used a bigger carb & inlet valve I wonder what else might be different & what the power output was ?
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I did'nt know the did a different head in Germany....
Anyhoo from memory I paid well over £400 to have a 126 head ported and fitted with big valves, titanium retainers and stronger springs and I dare not tell you what I spent on the head for my 1280 engine cos the Mrs is sitting next to me!!!!!! so if its been well ported then you have not been ripped off
Nigel
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No this head has not been ported and sadly I do not have a spare 652ccs head to hand to compare . I am guessing that the German engine had a 30mms carb hence the inlet port size & valve. Also the passage down to the valve seat looks to have quite good characteristics so I think that it would be quite an easy job to open up the inlet to match the Solex Manifold if I decide to go down that route . So all in all it is an interesting bunch of bits to play with so at the price I paid I think it is OK. It will be interesting getting quotes in for having the big valves fitted to one of the heads I have [-/
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From what I remember the German spec 126 Bambino had the same carb (28mm) as standard aircooled had. Did the standard head not have 30mm inlet port as well? I am too laisy to go and have a look in the loft for my spare head :yikes:
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I was only guessing that the port might be 28 mms on the 126 as the 500 one I have is 26 mms diameter in line with the carb .
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The extra big valves from eBay arrived today so dropped them into a head to see how they look. OOOOO ! not a lot more room in there :yikes:
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:o Wooo that`s what you call tight.
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Nice. How big is the inlet? 36mm?
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:) Yes the Inlet Valve is 36mms and Exhaust is 31mms [-/
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What sort of bhp you want to get?
My college on similar valve sizes, panda head, weber 40 dcoe (me thinks) got this:
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1498/maluszek2ka.jpg)
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1498/maluszek2ka.jpg
Thats just to give you some motivation [-/
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So what was the max output? Is it 44bhp? Is this just with a reworked Panda head, carb etc , or any internal mods?
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Yeap 44hp (not bhp) and 59Nm in the best run. The other lines are from different states of tune - I think he was trying different camshafts at that point.
I don't remember exactly what was done but it definately had prety high compression ratio, and some racing camshaft. It could have been also running 77.6mm pistons (so 662 instead of 652cc) but that wouldn't change much.
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PUMA RACE ENGINES - OPTIMUM EXHAUST VALVE SIZE
If you like technical stuff google the above as it makes very interesting reading about valve sizes [-/
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So I bet all you guys stayed up late reading that article :oops:
Well the main theme of it is that you will only get a minor benefit from increasing exhaust valve size but a much greater potential by increasing the inlet valve size. There are also recomendations for valve size to bore capacity.
I just found the big valves I bought on eBay on the Axel Gerst site 59 euros each :o so looks like I got an eBay bargain [-/
So now exploring a lead to get oversize valves at a more reasonable price ;D
There have always been loads of tuning options for the aircooled engines & this is one. but the Bis has always been limited. But I would guess that with a slight skim of the head, bigger inlet valves & porting , possible carb upgrade & a sports exhaust you could have an interesting little motor :D
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that cylinder head definitely is a german one... look down for a complete engine.
I went to the cellar to measure the inlet port of such a german head and it is 30mm too.
It has this shape because of the german regulation for homologation to avoid exhaust gas attain the passenger cabin if the gasket of the cylinder head is damaged.
The carburator of the german 126's has been a 28 IMB. I think, there was no difference to the british ones.
(http://img7.myimg.de/120320103052a535d_thumb.jpg)
click on that: http://img7.myimg.de/120320103052a535d.jpg
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Imagine 44hp... :o
must say my prayers to the god of e-bay that my boat gets sold so I can buy more go-faster bits ;D
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Hi Alfons , I see what you are saying [-/
By taking the hot air across the cylinder head & above the head gasket there is no chance of engine exhaust gasses getting into the interior of the car . I am not sure what to do with this head as I do not have the parts to fit that side of the engine :-
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one problem (the smaller one) of this head: the heating is not as good as the heating of the "normal" head
the second: the germans do not like theese heads much because of the seats of the spark plugs. They tend to fly away if the thread is not ok...
I think you will get that part in germany. Or in Italy (probably more expensive), because it is the same as on the Panda 30.
I have to look, whether I have one left in the cellar. And how much shipping to UK will be.