Club126UK
Fiat 126 Chat => Tuning & Customising 126 Models => Topic started by: rizlarizla on April 09, 2009, 11:56:23 AM
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hi
With drums all round on my current BIS - I am looking at attempting a front brake disc conversion using fiat seicento parts...is this possible??
what would i need from a donor seicento? I will probably take the discs, calipers, hubs, whatever brake line hoses i can get I suppose...? anything else? :)
Any other advice or help anyone can offer?
Plus is there anything else I can use off this car?
(A friend of a friend is breaking his car....so i thought this might be a good way to get some useful parts...i will be checking out the interior incase that can be used..has anyone doen this before?)
Appreciate any pointers [-/
Riz
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Plenty on here with the disc conversion, You will need to make or buy the mounting plates. I had a 126 with discs and personally was not too impressed as were VERY aggressive, but many ise them and are over the moon.
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Im in the middle of a disc brake converion right now I'll be posting a pic by pic guide once I'm done, re the harshness did you fit a bias valve to allow you to fine tune the braking from front to rear? Ive heard this can help with that...
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i was only thinking of front conversion only...methinks youd have to be an expert mechanic / engineer to do front and back..!
(i'm only a lowly photographer and pen pusher!) ;)
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Hi Riz , I have been working on the disc brake thing for a little while & the key to the whole thing seems to be what calipers you use & an appropriate mounting plate to mount the caliper on the stub axle. I have stuck to Fiat parts but I know some people have fitted Mini or Ford calipers. I have scoured the web and apart from a sketch of an adaptor plate on a Polish web site which I think may be for Panda calipers there seem to be no proper drawings for adaptor plates. The other thing is getting a setup that will fit inside the small wheels & I have seen some slightly scary stories by people taking angle grinders to the calipers to get them to clear the wheels. I decided that the only way forward was to get my hands on some of the hardware so I am now the proud owner of a pair of old Panda calipers, Cincuecento & Seicento Sporting which are all under restoration plus I got a new Punto Mk2 caliper to see how it compared to the others. Cinque & Seicento calipers are the same & I am told that they were also fitted to the early Puntos but not sure about that. Also got a pair of 240 mm discs from a Cinque for the test setup but on the lookout for the smaller 227 mm ones that are the smallest ones from Fiat that have the 98 mm four bolt wheel fixing. I am trying to get a pair of "test" adaptor plates made up from a sketch I have but my engineer contact is indisposed at the moment & I no longer have access to the machinery. So things are moving on & the aim is to put together a good useable set of plans for the conversion. [-/
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hi matey...
a family friend has a machining workshop as a business...if you need something manuafactured..let me know details and i can ask him...he won't charge me much at all i reckon...i had done his daughters wedding photos for free...so he likes me ;)
You are welcome to come by when part is ready or i can post to you....
I am hoping that the seicento parts i am taking will be enough !?
Riz
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You have all you need except the adapter plates, i bought mine from TRS racing in Poland as i came to the conclusion that it would cost more to get them engineered here in the U.K. plus they are laser cut. I think they are around £20 + postage but you can Email them and he will give you the current price and postage, took 2 weeks to arrive :)
[email protected]
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what pete said you just need the adaptors and the spacers the rest can be bought from ebay/motor factors for not alot of cash, my whole set up including a set of ebay adaptor plates cost me less than £150
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Just in case anyone sees the cheap ones on Allegro, in Poland most use FSO Polonez calipers and discs.
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:) I have sent a test e-mail to TRS Racing & will report if I get an answer. Pete do you know what calipers you are running with? Also the trade information I have tells me that those FSO Polonez discs are the 227 mm ones which are fitted to a huge range of Fiat & other make cars. Not sure what calipers they use though.
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The plates are for the Cinquecento or siecento they use the same calliper and weigh allot less than the fso polenais.
I have not got round to fitting them yet, just been waiting for the weather to improve as i need to go to the scrap yard for a pair of calliper carriers, I think Stuey has the same plates?
P.S. I think TRS have a paypal acount :)
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yep mine have cinq brakes
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i had a set of the fso polonez disc and calipers , and adapter plates however i thought they looked way too heavy duty for the poor 126 if you have any questions ask warren as i gave them to him.
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thanks guys for the help thus far [-/
- do let me know about if you get an email from TRS pls...plus do they have a guide on how to fit? (if not maybe i can create something for all to use - kinda idiots guide to 126 brake conversion- as i am no mechanic!!) LOL
- i got the brakes/disc/calipers and hubs...the guy was very helpful and i think i will post his details on here because he only deals with Seicento's so there may be some of you who may want other stuff from him...
the guys name is Matt, based in SO45 area...number is 07786 334336 - TOP BLOKEY :)
Thanks again for all the help...keep it coming...
>:(
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Hi Riz , sounds like you have got some good stuff. I will let you know if I get a reply on the adaptor plates. Might even be able to negotiate a discount for a multiple purchase ?
Did you mean SO45 for the location for Matt as that is Southampton & is your e-mail address shown correctly on the site as I tried it out the other day ? I will be interested to know if those hubs will fit the 126 stub axles. [-/
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yeah - the guy is based in southampton
I am based in slough...yeah it was a trek - but worth it - if all works out :D
- i also got some alloys from him...which i think might fit my 126 also...standard seicento alloys...
if not - i will be putting them on ebay..! :(
I will check my email....thanks
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As long as they have the standard 165/55 tyres on they'll fit no bother [-/
Not sure how good they'll look mind you </7
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i agree but beggars can't be choosers....(esp if i have a limited budget)
LOL
I will polish up and maybe colur different..
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I'll be interested to see how they look as I may need to put my Sei alloys on the 126 temporarily while I refurb the Minilites, someone's tried to do it before and made an 'orrible job of it!
Sorry, going a bit of topic now :oops:
I did notice - if you've got the cash - that either Ricambi or Ricambio do a disc brake conversion kit which includes everything you need but it's not cheap, £450+ IIRC :o
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yep - i saw that too...£400 !! :o
well so far i have spent £50/60 on brake discs/calipers hubs etc...probably another £20 on the plates...then maybe ask a mechanic if he can do anything with it (unless i can get instructions of soem sort..?)
I will keep you posted on the alloys also...(thanks for makeing it another topic) :-
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i managed to pull a schematic for adapter plates - for 126 brake disc conversions.....maybe someone will find it useful...unfortunatley i can't seem to add to this post...so if someone needs it PM me... ;)
I had some advice from Phreak97 - and awaiting a response to a question but he thinks the plate is not required - just need to drill a hole somewhere (apparently it is obvious - but i won't know until i get the coversion started ..) :D
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where are you going to drill holes? you will need a plate to fit it all together maybe our australian friend has been out in the sun for too long someone chuck him a tinnie..
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If you look back to this vintage post you can see the disc kit that I ended up using, complete with some pretty pictures. I think that they are the callipers that have been referred to as FSO Polonez. They are also very similar to early Uno/X/19/Panda brakes.
http://club126uk.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1909.msg11218#msg11218
Dom
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Hi Dom , did you ever have any problems with the wheel mounting threads in the aluminium adaptor plate shown in that thread that allow the mounting of the 500 or early 126 wheels ???
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Hi Dave,
I didn't have a problem with the adapter mounting to the wheels, however I did end up scrapping the idea and using 13" Cromodoras instead as the Calliper was too large for the original wheels.
The Aluminium adapter fitted the original steelies perfect and the threads worked fine with the original wheel bolts, I just couldn't get the wheels to turn past the calliper, even with 25mm worth of spacers!
Ended up selling them on ebay for a fraction of the cost I'd paid, but they were useless to me :(
This was during my trial and error phase, which actually hasn't stopped. My last silly acquisition was one of those 'Abarth' Fan case top covers - stupidly bought as it was much cheaper than they are going for on eBay. Only problem is that they have no mounting for the throttle linkage to connect to, so I have spent ages carving up the old cover and will now attempt a drill and rivet manoeuvre, all for a shiny aluminium lid in a filthy engine bay. The only advantage I can see is that it will free up the space that the old air box crudely takes up!
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dom you are a true magpie! if you rivet onto the alloy cover you might find that it will shake loose as there is a lot of vibration to deal with.
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Gotta love the shiny stuff!
I did think that, however our friend Shed 7 from eBay has done the same thing and sent me over some photos, it looks a bit iffy, but seems to work for him/her/them. Of course, wheter it stand up in time, who knows.
I am a little paranoid about it shaking loose bits of rivet or nuts and falling into the fan...
But we'll see
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how about making a bridge that bolts on between the actual fan housing panels rather than canabalising your new shiney stuff?
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Had a reply from TRS & they are out of stock on the plates at the moment , they reckon about a month or so. They have two types normaly Chinque / Seicento & Panda / Uno.
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Excellent - i will see if we can contact them in a month and get the plates....cheers
will keep everyone posted of progress...
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I would be interested in joining in a group buy.. or going halves on carriage for some Cinquecento plates.....
I'm just in the process of scavenging some Cinquecento disc's, cailpers and hubs from the local scrap yard..
The guys gonna charge me £50 quid for both sides.. but he asked if I want the hub bearings too coz they are extra?? Again I'm no mechanic but they sound quite important?.. should I get them too? Anything else I should grab while I'm at it? ???
Also... it doesn't matter what year/model the Chinq is does it?
Cheers
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hi Matey
I have only just recently acquired my first BIS 126 also.. :)...and i am no mechanic. I will be taking car to my mechanic in a month or so...can update you when he has a look.
The brakes i got were from a siecento - maybe the cinq stuff will be same and fine or maybe calipers or discs might be big? - not sure ?
I bought all my bits from a bloke in southampton who gave me everything i needed- hubs, calipers, brakes etc. (i have posted this guys details on the forum - on the contacts...give him a call - he might be able to help)..it was as cheap as you are gtting from breakers for the whole lot.
Secondly i was informed that we will need to get some plates to attach what we have to existing BIS stuff...flanges or soem sort...a guy in poland can supply these..but has no stock right now...i think he is from trs racing
I am interested in finding out the sports exhaust and air filter also - so pls let me know how this works for you.... i will try and follow your thread re your exhaust in anycase.....
keep in touch buddy...
[-/
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you dont need the hub bearings , i would only buy the calipers to be honest then put new pads and discs on plus the adapter plate.
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Rizlarizla: Will do mate, all though anyone who follows in my footsteps would be a brave person.. I dont really have a clue what I'm doing! :)
Bis13: your right.. there's not much point buying used discs.. new ones are not that expensive!
So should I go straight for the 1.1 Sporting Discs or should I stick with something a little more 'entry'? Did they even change the break setup for the sporting version?.. hmmm.. would the calipers be different too?... double hmmm :-
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Would these be overkill? ;D
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FIAT-Cinquecento-700-PERFORMANCE-DRILLED-GROOVED-DISCS_W0QQitemZ180345046015QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item180345046015&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
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the holes are only there to aid with heat dispersion under heavy braking same as grooves aid to maintain braking efficiency but remember the more there is on the disc the faster your pads will wear down, if you want to go "overkill" then go and get a willwood custom fitted setup.
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I would go back to your local breaker guy & offer the £50 for the whole set up including hubs plus all the fixings as if they are not too worn that would be a reasonable deal and you would be well on your way to a budget conversion.
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the holes are only there to aid with heat dispersion under heavy braking same as grooves aid to maintain braking efficiency but remember the more there is on the disc the faster your pads will wear down, if you want to go "overkill" then go and get a willwood custom fitted setup.
I have some grooved discs on one of my other cars (Lotus Esprit) and there is a big increase in noise under heavy braking. I wouldn't go for it unless your'e either making big horsepower or you really need to have 'the grooved look'. Standard Cinq brakes work fine on a 55 hp cinq sporting so if you still have a two pot 126 motor you'll be fine.
Gav
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Have you guys had any news from TRS? Have they got the adaptor plates in stock yet? I would also be interested joining in.
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Have you guys had any news from TRS? Have they got the adaptor plates in stock yet? I would also be interested joining in.
Yeah, what he said - count me in for a group buy :)
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I emailed them last week and got the same reply ass Rusty!... Back in stock in a month!?.... :( :-
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Well I'm in no rush, I'll be using the front brakes from The Yellow One when it gets upgraded to Punto GT brakes, giving her a rear disc conversion too hopefully ;D
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The disc brake thing did get pushed down the priority list with the engine out & new clutch job plus the response from TRS again. Also the lack of definate designs for adaptor plates to suit the variations ie Panda / Uno or Cinque / Seicento calipers on 240 or 227 mm diameter discs. On the plus side I now have some new stub axle assemblies to build on to check out the set up as I have seen some dodgey stuff on the net about having to grind bits off here & there to clear the wheels. I am short of the front hubs at the moment & the couple of guys who said they could get plates cut out have turned out to be a no show but I had a word today with a guy who knows about CNC laser cutting & he said that with a final design the plate would be quite easy. So things are moving on but I am frustrated by not having access to some basic workshop facilities to trial some adaptor plates :(
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Hello. The adapter plates are already available. You can contact me on email: [email protected]
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I.ve emailed TRS about these, I've asked for price on a 1/5/10 pairs I'm quite happy to buy these and anybody in 126uk who wants a pair can have them at cost plus postage in the UK the rest will go to friends/ebay/spares box.
will update as soon as they get back to me
Richie
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I can get them for 300PLN for 6 sets. That is about £9.50 per set. Shipping about a fiver a set to the UK then however much postage is here.
Under £20 a set. I am waiting for the guys bank account to pay for them.
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My UK based disc brake project has moved on a tad as I finalised my design & took it to a laser cutting firm today , could possibly have plates available next week subject to testing out a sample. I do not want to undermine Dajwid as under £20 seems pretty good to me if the plates are OK & of a reasonable design, would be nice to see one though. I will start a new thread about my design & availability. [-/
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:) How are you guys getting on with your supply of adaptor plates ? My prototypes & the first production run , 12 sets in all , have all been sold . Slightly unexpected as I did a deal with a classic & kit car brake specialist who wants to put together full kits to add to his catalogue, quite flattered really , :oops:
I am going to order a few more sets as I do not even have my own set & now the hard work is done , the design & the expensive bit , having the design translated into the computer program for the laser cutting I am told that repeat orders are quite easy as long as I go for a minimum order quantity. I have taken some pictures of the plates & also the plates that Mick bought & took to Billing, they are bolted onto a nice set of factory recon stub axles I happened to have </
As I am rubbish at posting pics I will not try but if anybody wants to see how they look just PM me your e-mail address. I have enjoyed the challenge & getting a result so the next one is to sort out the most user / wallet friendly solution for the 12" wheel rim users. I have a cunning plan which I explained to Mick when he visited Castle Bonkers on his way to Billing. I know that he will not give anything away as he knows I have pictures of him in a compromising position & without a wooley hat on </1 </4
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i am bound to silence sir....