Club126UK
Fiat 126 Chat => Tuning & Customising 126 Models => Topic started by: Joe Webb on March 01, 2016, 01:19:46 PM
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Hey there,
I have a 1999 ELX and have been looking for a boss kit for months now. I just bought my 3rd boss that doesn't fit and I'm fed up with it now!
does anyone know what boss I can get that will fit?
I think it has 37 teeth but that just sounds wrong to me :( I've tried a 38 tooth 500 boss and that didn't fit at all.
I'm about ready to get a new steering column to accommodate my boss kit it's irritating me that much!
Many thanks!
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How is it you're not sure how many teeth? You 'think' it's 37...
Can you not count them for some reason?
Presumably you have offered the 38 tooth boss up to "something" and found it doesn't fit. So can you not count the teeth on the 'something' you offered the boss up to?
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yeah I got annoyed and put the car back together, I did count them multiple times and got 37 teeth but I still doubt myself as I've never heard any mention of a boss with 37 teeth.
I've seen one with 40 teeth, one with 20ish teeth and a 500 one with 38
So basically yeah my spline has 37 teeth, any ideas?
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yup triple checked it again, the spline has 37 teeth and is 17mm in diameter
I feel like I'm the only 126 owner with this goddamn spline
someone please help! :cry:
If all else fails, could someone lend me a pooty old steering wheel with that fitment that i can hack up into a DIY boss?
(when I say lend I mean sell)
Cheers!
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OK, let's go back to square one.
Initially you had a car with a working steering wheel fitted. [answer yes/no at each stage]
The steering wheel was a tight fit on the steering column.
You removed the steering wheel and any boss it was attached to, leaving the splined end of the steering column sticking out from the dashboard.
This splined end has - apparently - 37 splines.
This splined end is 17mm diameter.
Now, presumably the steering wheel boss also has 37 splines... OR... does it have a Woodruff key fitting?
Assuming the steering wheel has NO keyway or groove of any sort for a keyed fitting - that is, it has the splines spaced evenly all around it - it should be an easy matter to take the steering wheel to someone else, and ask them to count the splines.
DO NOT tell your willing volunteer how many splines you think there are, ask them to count it 'blind' (jokes on a postcard, please...). It may help to carefully mark just one of the splines with a white marker like a blob of paint or a blob of Tippex correction fluid (which us oldies keep tucked away beside the computer 'just in case'...)
I suspect you will find it actually has only 36 splines. Counting the steering column will be difficult as you have to go upside down, but the steering wheel itself is more easily handled.
If you do find it's only 36, then an Astrali boss of some type apparently has a 17mm dia, 36 spline fitting. Evidently there were 3 sizes used by Astrali, so you need to be clear which one you get. I also discover that older Fords used this fitting on some models, so asking around the Ford or vintage forums (Pistonheads?) might yield more information.
But first, I recommend an independent count of the splines on the steering wheel.
If it is indeed 37, then there are some serious implications...
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Thank's for taking the time to respond, I really appreciate it!
I can whole heartedly confirm the b******* has 37 teeth. ???
I was hoping it would be the same as at least one other 126 on this forum!!
what serious implications would we be talking about? :-X
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The rather serious implications are that it appears that your steering column and steering wheel boss are, if not unique, then pretty rare, so in effect you are stuck with what you have, unless you do indeed, as you suggested previously, replace your entire steering column.
However, since the top end is different to the norm, it's possible that bottom end might be also, so there has to be a chance you would need to change the steering box and linkages etc at the bottom end as well.....
Now this is of course speculation, since we can't be sure until you try, but logically it has to be a possibility. So the key question is, how much do you want to change your existing steering wheel?
There could be other options. For example, on my Reliant the steering wheel boss fits onto a hex spigot. I can't recall the exact dimensions, but I'd guess it's about 15-17mm across the points. It's possible you could get a local machine shop to grind your circular splined spigot to a hexagonal one, and then you could fit Momo or Mountney etc. But that's a huge amount of work, and won't be cheap.
Final thought: Demon Tweeks do a large range of bosses and special fittings like quick-release etc - might be worth giving them a call to see if they know anything about a 37-spline fitting.
Also might be worth a chat with Piotr (user name Piotross) to see if the spec you have was unique to Polish production, for example.
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Oh, just a thought: if you want to take a circle, which measures 360 degrees all round, and you want to set up a cutting or milling machine to cut even grooves (or splines) all around it, what spacing do you need on your setting?
Well, if you want 36 splines, your setting jump is every 10 degrees (360 divide by 36 = 10)
For a jump of 7.5 degrees, you get 48 splines. Unsurprisingly these two sizes are very common.
To get 37 splines, you'd need to set a jump of 360/37= 9.7297297 degrees. Now, I can't imagine many engineering designers or production engineers opting for such a bizarre setting when there are two perfectly good alternatives so easy to set up.
Have you actually obtained a 36-spline boss and tried to fit it?
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You might find this item interesting:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/steering/sr107.htm
It took the author four YEARS to determine that he had only 48 splines (common size, 7.50000 degrees) and not 49 (requires increment of 7.3469387 degrees).
Happy (re!!)counting :cry:
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I can't imagine I have a unique spline, Although I have definitely counted 37 multiple times :/
I haven't tried a 36 tooth boss yet so maybe that's the next step, where could i find one do you reckon? Demon tweeks?
Not really willing to grind down the spline, I'm taking care that all my modifications are reversible, it's just a pain that I have over a hundred quids worth of wheel, quick release fitting and horn push itching to set off my interior!
I think I'll assume I've done the same thing as that guy then
Haven't seen any mention of a 36 tooth fiat 126 thread though
Thanks! ;D
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wow I've just counted them some more and I am convinced it has 37 teeth. I'll probably look for a 36 tooth boss anyway and hope it fits with some encouragement :(
flabbergasted
If anyone else has an elx and fancies taking their wheel off to have a count I'd be fascinated to see what number you come up with!
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(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1632/25485904155_48b647432d_b.jpg)
just so people don't think I'm crazy...
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I should have an elx steering column and st. wheel kicking round in my shed. I`ll have a look laters.
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Well, Joe, I've just counted on your photo, and I have to admit I get 37 too... maybe we're both crazy ? :P
Seriously, that's really weird - who would choose 37 when 36 must be so much easier to produce?
Let's see what Ladislav comes up with.
The other folks to get in touch with are 126Fan in Slovakia. They will know what's available in terms of off-the-shelf bosses. Their email is [email protected] and their English is pretty good - I believe at least one person from there is on this Forum.
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Thanks so much guys, I will give them an email
And let me know what you find Lad :)
Cheers
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Just got SWMBO to look at your photo, no prior knowledge, and she counted: 37, straight off.
37 it is!
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OK here it is. Joe the good news is, you haven`t lost the plot ;D
The first picture is an ELX st. wheel/column
(http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/Fiat-mad-lad/1_zpsfjkaquh6.jpg) (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/Fiat-mad-lad/media/1_zpsfjkaquh6.jpg.html)
The quality is not the best, but I`ve blown it up on my computer and it seems like 37 splines.
Second picture air cooled approx 83/84
(http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/Fiat-mad-lad/2_zps9cfgy7qw.jpg) (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/Fiat-mad-lad/media/2_zps9cfgy7qw.jpg.html)
The third one is a bis
(http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/Fiat-mad-lad/3_zpsqsgwfmud.jpg) (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/Fiat-mad-lad/media/3_zpsqsgwfmud.jpg.html)
Last photo is the knuckle end of elx and early air cooled compared.
(http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac53/Fiat-mad-lad/4_zpsoigyjn3g.jpg) (http://s885.photobucket.com/user/Fiat-mad-lad/media/4_zpsoigyjn3g.jpg.html)
Just let me know if you need an early steering column as I`ve got a spare one ;)
I`m not sure why the ELX is different, but I guess they have used a steering wheel from a Cinquecento. I think the mirrors and bits of the instrument panel are Cinq. too. I could be wrong though.
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I hope you didn't go to all that effort just for me :o
Thanks so much!
Hey if the wheel is from a cinquecento could I get a cinquecento boss ?!!
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Momo boss £66.40 from Merlin Motorsport:
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/momo-steering-boss-for-fiat-cinquecento-no-airbag-up-to-1997-4033?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=ShoppingUK&utm_campaign=ShoppingUK&vat=on¤cy=GBP&gclid=CNL62MaVqMsCFUI_GwodIJwFAA
Vigilante Joyrider £66 from Blitzworld:
http://www.blitzworld.co.uk/joyrider-steering-wheel-boss-cinq-i626.html
Raid from Amazon at £59:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Raid-KK719-Steering-Wheel-Cinquecento/dp/B001F2UMA0
Apparently Seicento steering wheels will also fit (but don't quote me on that) and you might want to check out the Fiat Forum www.fiatforum.com which has several threads on this topic - however, from my brief skim of some of them it doesn't look like there's much in the way of options.
Apparently nothing from Demon Tweeks.
In searching, I note that several people refer to the "boss" as a "hub" so you might want to search using that term too.
Good luck!
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Oh, just a last tip: you probably don't need telling after all you've been through ;D but it will be worth a phone call to a potential supplier before you order a "Cinquecento boss" that the item they will ship actually does have 37 splines.
Even if your steering column is from a Cinq, it doesn't follow that *all* Cinquecento columns were the same. Some folks say the Cinq had some parts in common with a Punto, so if Fiat re-sourced the column part-way through production, you might find some "Cinquecento" bosses will fit and some won't...
Some Fiat 500s had a 38 spline fitting, but some also had a 20 spline fitting, which Fiat called "fine" and "coarse" respectively. Some of Ladislav's photos seem to show the coarse version.
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Yeah haha I'm going to check!
Found one on ebay for 33 quid, I'll see what he says about the spline
I think I'll go for a budget one as I might need to modify it for the horn and self cancelling indicators!
Thanks again guys!! ;D
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Woohoo, finally a success!
everything fits! the quick release is so cool haha!
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1694/26491036182_3e4410120b.jpg)
can confirm: a pre 98 cinquecento boss will fit the 37 tooth spline on EL & ELX :D
still waiting to find out if a Tipo/Tempura boss will fit as well. Will update later.
now I need to set about lowering the wheel slightly and maybe come up with a plan to bring the indicator stalks closer to the wheel, but everything works fine as is :)
could also resort to a slimmer QR adapter.
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Looks good mate :good:
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cheers!
I think so :P
should be tricky to steal now!
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1474/26602177135_869821a950.jpg)
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Joe
Can you advise on where you managed to get the 37 spline from or send me the link. I have the same problem