Club126UK
Fiat 126 Chat => Tuning & Customising 126 Models => Topic started by: jokke on November 13, 2010, 05:53:52 PM
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Here are some pictures of a supercharged BIS engine. not done yet. sorry for the bad quality on pictures, taken with cellphone.
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8607/imag0075mw.jpg)
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/585/imag0074.jpg)
(http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3406/imag0073d.jpg)
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Oooohhh :)
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Hi jokke,
That looks like an interesting project [-/ Keep the pictures coming I love to see this type of engineering :fing02: any idea on the power gains,
But where are you going to put the radiator ??? Keep up the good work look forward to seeing it installed in your 126 [-/
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Hello Pete.
I'm not really sure about the power gains, with this setup the supercharger is 2,3:1 ratio. So it will give around 5-6 psi i think.
It's a little hardt to know, because it's very little info about the supercharger on internet. It's a Aisin AMR300. It's orginal on a Subaru 660cc that pounds out 65ps or something. but that will for sure break the little bis engine.(?)
And since the orginal Weber can't handle pressure, I'm going to fit a Bosch monopoint unit, with Megasquirt!
I will keep posting pictures.
For the radiator, I was hoping it can be mounted where it is now, for the supercharger is just 1 inch or so beyond the termostat. If it fails to fit, I'm going to buy a slim fan to fit. and then it will fit! :) time will show! ;)
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I like the idea of a supercharger, you get the power and torque throughout the rev band, No turbo lag [-/
When Steve (Smallcox) is on line he should be able to advise you on what PSI he is running with his turbo, As he hasn't had a problem so far (Touch Wood)
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Jepp. And I already got a Turbo car, Uno Turbo, so I thought it will be cool to try som different. :)
Yes it will be good help to know how much Steve got in his Maluch, PS and psi.
No progress today, maybe tomorrow, and to the weekend I going to Poland a trip, then I bring som parts home again! So it will be mor progress next week! :) will keep you updated! ;)
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When Steve (Smallcox) is on line he should be able to advise you on what PSI he is running with his turbo, As he hasn't had a problem so far (Touch Wood)
Hi Jokke and gang,
Hasn't had a problem yet :-X except I broke a conrod when running at 18psi with standard conrods. the safe limit is about 10psi with a standard engine if long life is required or to use every day. your building a supercharged as mine is turbocharge so you will find loads off tourqe earlier in the revs. Also from my experiance under 4psi no real gain was noticed in power but above 7-8psi the engine came alive. At presant I run stronger conrods but all else is fiat 126 and thats boosting to 17psi. don't now how much bhp but 0-60 by my stop whatch is just over 10secs (and thats not dropping the clutch) thats with a bis box fitted [-/
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It would be great to see the finished product. I can't wait! I find it quite amazing how you guys find out ways to extract more power from a 25bhp, two cylinder 0.7cc engine. Definitely keep us informed of developments and keep the pictures coming. It would be fantastic to see Smallcox and your supercharged 126 compete at the Retro Rides. Both your cars will definitely steal the show!!
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Steve:
that is impressiv, I diden't know that standard engine could handle such a pressure. Good news! Just have to get the ratio up on the supercharger if it's low on psi. do you use a carb og inj?
I'm finished with the bracket today, welded and painted! will get a picture tomorrow.
Have som new ideas on the inj, not going to use the monopoint, but going to build a monopoint my self. so I'm going to shop some on ebay now! :)
But megasquirt is a must have for me.
Will post som pictures when I take some!
Amateb8:
Thanks, it's fun to do some different things! just hopes it works!
what is Retro Rides? :)
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Here are the bracket finish, welded and painted!
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8928/imag0076n.jpg)
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Here is the link to the Retro Rides Gathering 2010.
http://club126uk.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4638.0
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Hi Jokke and all,
The carb started life on some leyland car and was not used for running pressurised, I modified the carb shafts to except valve stem seals fitted in reverse (the higher the pressure the more they seal) and fitted gaskets to seal the carb up, then played with the boost signals to get the calibration so the engine would run.
3 days it took me to get that little bugger running. >:(
The carb is good to 15 psi but runs lean after that so fitted but not connected up yet is a 5th injection system as the engine was built to run at 25psi :oops:BANG and a bag off bits.
You should be able to use your carb thats on the bis providing you seal the throttle shaft, there are tricks you can use to fool the carb into working under boost conditions and if jetting parts are avalible then peice of cake [-/
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Ingenious, i would never have thought of installing valve stem seals in reverse [-/
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(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2638/imag00750.jpg)
Had to modify the placing of the tension. But, now it is in place.
Steve:
You have don a nice job with your car! :)
But, I'm not going to use carb, want monopoint inj with Megasquirt, just to get it more complicated.. :p
Now I'm looking for a throttle body that is around 40mm, if somebody know of something, jell out! :)
Going to work some more with the engine tomorrow! So, I keep you updated! ;)
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been working some today. made a bracket for the pickup for the ignition. here some photos:
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/6559/imag0077b.jpg)
(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4346/imag0078n.jpg)
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/9836/imag0079ht.jpg)
it's not finished, going to grind some of it and paint it!
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Looks good but does your ignition system allow you to retard it as your boost increases, as this will be impotant in making the best off the engine. if your using some sort off electronic retard system then a pessure sensor in the induction system will be needed [-/
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Yes. The Megasquirt I going to use have built in ignition controll. So it will be used for monopoint and the ignition. so going to use a map sensor. :)
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Just been looking at performance kits for the smart car (thats the funny looking car that your girlfriend would drive). On the web theres kits that claim 160bhp at the wheels with 100bhp as a basic upgrade. has anybodies girlfriend done this to there smart?
and how does the car go :)
Smallcox
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haven't done so much lately. but have made an exhaust.
Some pics.. :
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4586/imag0088y.jpg)
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5295/imag0087px.jpg)
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Is that a oxygen sensor i see :D Fantastic job Jokke Keep the pics coming, How about coming over to England for the Retro Rides Gathering 2011 at Prescott Hill-climb Gloucestershire, You and Steve Smallcox can fight it out which is best Turbo or Supercharging :D
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Yes Pete, it's a oxygen sensor.. ;) must have it to get the most out of the megasquirt.
I have also bought throttle body from a GSX-R, 40mm, that I going to mod and fit. don't know when, but hope soon.. :) will keep posting pics for you guys.. :)
About the retro rides, unsure, I want, but I don't know when the car is finished, hopefully it will be finish before the summer comes! :)
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Wow! It's wery impressive projeckt. Keep it going. I can't wait too see the final result.
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Steve and Jokke,
Found this on ebay, Fiat 126 T3T4 TurboCharger Turbo Kit
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Fiat-126-T3T4-TurboCharger-Turbo-Kit-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ca5ede2e1QQitemZ260481868513QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
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They claim a 50 to 100 hp gain on a stock motor. :-
Call me cynical but that's sounding a wee bit of stretch.
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If you want your turbo to last more that two minutes dont buy this kit. These "hybrid" turbos are the cheap chinese stuff.
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... hopefully it will be finish before the summer comes! :)
Something new!? :)
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hello. Not so much. have moved the radiator a bit, so the supercharger will have enough space. And fitted a electric fuelpump.
Also have a Uno Turbo that have taken up some time for me. MOT and stuff.. but now I'm finished with that, So I can spend som more time with my Maluch! :D
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at last I have some time working on the Fiat. Now the engine is in, and the superchrger too.. :)
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2926/img20130324152137.jpg)
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Can't wait to here it fire up and running :D
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Today I was thinking of your project, that it took so long since the last news about it, when I saw the blower I got in the cupboard ;D Greetings!!!
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Changed the head gasket today, since the other one was blown. Mounted a copper gasket, hoping it will last longer. :)
So fired it up today, with the supercharger hooked up in free air, kinda cool sound when it hit the revs. :)
So here is a little video of the running.. ;)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sucG0iCU5Wk&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
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thas fantastic hehehe
8)
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WoW sounds sweet :P It will be even sweeter once its installed in the car, You must be proud of what you have achieved so far, keep up the momentum :thumbup
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super cool 8)!!!
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Have monted cluster from cinquecento sporting. :)
[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOIMSNOiing&feature=youtube_gdata_player [/youtube]
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new brakes finished up :)
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9089/img20130421141550.jpg)
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Hi. Looks pretty good. Do you have a blueprint of the brackets of the disk brake sytem? ;D
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Hi Topolino, no don't have any blueprint, bought adapter from ebay some time ago. but it's the same as this one:
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss196/tatex1/Brake%20disc%20adapter/Brakediscadapter.jpg)
The have been up in this post: http://club126uk.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4724.0
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Drawing at this site look under Tuning zawieszenia, hamulce tarczowe
http://www.126fan.pl/
Hope it helps, this is the drawing I used.
Ralph
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Drawing at this site look under Tuning zawieszenia, hamulce tarczowe
http://www.126fan.pl/
Hope it helps, this is the drawing I used.
Ralph
Which calipers must be used with these adapter? Fiat Cinquecento?
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Fiat Siecento or Cinquecento :D
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I think the original old panda also fits.
Ralph
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Some progress.. :)
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6670/20130509173146.jpg)
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:o 8) :D
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That looks great!
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Thanks guys! :) Will get som more pics soon. :)
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Steve, What kind of fuelpump do you use? I use a mr. gasket 42s, and after 300meters or something, the carb is getting empty. so my fuel pump can't pump enough fuel to drive. But it goes very good before that. :)
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Hi good to see you making progress, something I lack theses days.
I thought you was using a injection system (mega squirt). I did have problems when running 30psi fuel pump which is regulated I run this upto 12psi then changed to a 60 psi pump good for 200bhp at 20psi. As presure increases the pump becomes less efficient on turbos as they run under positive presures.
Does this help, Standard cosworth Sierra will work perfect is you can find one. ;)
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It was the plan to use megasquirt, but haven't got around getting so far, so i'm using the orginal weber. have used o-rings on the throttle shaft.
Do you think that the orginal fuel pump in parallel with the electronic fuel pump shoul work? Think I'm going to try that, or maybe the orginal pump on idle, and a pressure switch on the electronic pump, so it starts on boost?
thanks
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Dump the original fuel pump >:(
get a external electric pump from the breakers, anything from an injection car as this will run at a higher presure than you will require at present. Try to source a pressure regulator for the carb, this will hold the fuel pressure at 5 psi above boost. the fuel tank will need to modified with larger flow pipe both outlet and return, as the regulator returns the fuel back to the tank to hold the carb pressure at the required pressure.
It sound technical but is not. Ebay is one source or a demon tweek catologe is another but more expensive.
On the carb you will require the fuel bowl to have a positive boost pressure feed to it so a fitting and hose connected to this will help from the charger.
Never run the engine lean, turbo cars will melt pistons in a flash. run slightly richer if possible to cool the pistons. :cry:
It took me 3 months to build the engine to run the turbo and even now I am trying new methods to improve the engine. upto an estimated 93bhp at the wheels at 20 psi boost.
It will go bang ???
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Have got a new pump now. :) Anybody have a clue how big jets I must use? I have NO clue.. :p
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Head gasket gone again! :( No trip to Hokovce for this car. :(
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Sorry to here that Jokke :( But at least its gone near home, Better that than 200 mile down the road :thumbup Looks like we will all have to get together at the next MWM!
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Yeah,it's a bugger. but I'm going for the trip, use another car. :) So will post som pics. :)
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Go for it Jokke,
God i wish i could have gone this year :( But my Boss has decided to go on a cruise next week >:( We will all have to make an effort to get to the next MWM ;D
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Next year I'm sure I would bring my 126 to MWM. :) Then I have one year to find out why the head gasket is blowing, I bought the head new for 1 year ago, but it can be some cracks or something, I have check that it's not warped.
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Hey!! we will all get together in our 126's one day, If you are doing any modification on a Bis engine its advisable to use a copper gasket :good: Enjoy your trip down in your Uno? and take lots of Photos :D
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I have used a copper gasket. :/
No, I have buyed a new 126 in Poland, I'm picking it up on friday morning. :) So going with a 126 to MWM: :D
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I agree with Pete, It's a dame shame I would of love to of gone myself to MWM.
I take a quess your gasket has lost compression rather than a water leak. Are you retarding your ignition enough? as pre ingnition will damage internal engine parts , also as mentioned above lean mixture will destroy your engine in a flash including head gasket and forced induction is the worst kind to run lean. I run a standard gasket for years without any trouble and only went to copper because of larger custom pistons fitted.
If you take your carb to a specialist he maybe be able to quess a larger jet to get you started but rolling road is the only true way or fit a oxygen sensor and monitor it.
Kind regards Smallcox
If there is interest in going next year to MWM I will be up for a convoy of 126's
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Hello, my name is Lukas- I'm from Poland My English is not the best, but I have to show interesting thing. I'm building a motor based on the BIS engine with supercharger from VW TSI (Eaton 24) and is to be operated MPI injection (home made). Everything is in the construction phase but progress of the work you can see here:
http://www.odrdzewiacz.fora.pl/sport-z-epoki,8/przebudowa-silnika-fiat-126p-temat-zbiorczy,186.html
(http://naforum.zapodaj.net/thumbs/30aec8cd0c54.jpg) (http://naforum.zapodaj.net/30aec8cd0c54.jpg.html)
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Hello.
I'm looking for a piece of advice about poly v belt.
A tip for cheap conversion if possible.
Where are the parts from? Conditioning air compressor or what?
Thank you very much.
Bye.