Club126UK
Fiat 126 Chat => Fiat 126 Chat => Topic started by: markymarc on March 31, 2013, 03:51:39 PM
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Hi guys,
Has anyone used these electronic ignition units that replace your points in the distributed? I have found two kits (stealth & acu-spark) are there any others? Which one is best?
I would like get your thoughts before I see if its worth it or not?
I know when its a second car that doesn't get used much it can start better?!
Cheers chaps
Mark
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Hi. Yes I was contemplating that move, after all at only around £ 40.00, but then if it goes wrong will it be as easy to diagnose, no harder than it normally is. So I hav`nt done it yet but would`nt mind finding out from any one also.
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I want to know this, too
Do you need to keep the existing coil when replacing with electronic ignition? (Bis)
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Yes you do. I think this post proves that times are bad when we are only looking at £40.00... Whos brave enough to part with the cash first ?
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Some of the guys on here run the Acu Spark one (Rusty`s Uncle) with good results.
I think this system is only suitable for the air cooled cars.
I`ve also ordered one, but haven`t fitted it yet.
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I don't mind cashing out £40 as long as I know the part is reputable.
I've heard the car will drive better and have a better MPG etc. etc.
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I have accu spark on my AC. Great investment. Uses standard coil.
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Mmmm?
Maybe I will take the plunge? :o
Marc
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I came across the stealth on eBay last weekend & ordered one so I could check it out. Not fitted yet but it looks the same as the accuspark unit and even has an accuspark sticker on the module. I have already fitten 3 accuspark units & posted tips on here a while back but just happen to be running 123 units on both my runners at the moment :)
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Are we talking BIS or aircooled stuff here? I'm after BIS info :)
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Just had a reply from Accuspark, and the stealth is the same as the accuspark just updated and cheaper!
marc
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Still won't fit the Bis :(
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Long time since I messed with a Bis distributor but the accuspark/stealth units are fixed to a very basic solid base plate to suit Fiat 500 & 126 air coolers. The Bis has to have provision for the vacuum advance in the base plate which is probably uneconomical to produce in small numbers so may never happen I can see no reason why a DIY job could not be done to fit the module to a Bis baseplate but I do not have a bis distributor to test out the theory.
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Some time ago I had a little dialog with a seller about it:
Dear ignitionland,
Hi,friends!I would like to bring to your attention some incorrect info about this item. It is listed like: "Fits all FIAT 500 and 126 models", and in the title "for 126 Bis 700cc".
First of all it got nothing to do with the water cooled 126 Bis 700cc. The advance plate is completely different and the cam is quite larger. So the title is absolutely misleading and you should change it. I've seen in the forums discussions fill it fit on Bis,so it will not.
And secondly, fits all 500's and all 126's before 1994. The one on the picture.
I hope it was helpful.
Have a nice day!
Deyan
And the answer :-
Hi,
Thanks for your input, however it is just an advert, up on ordering we ask the customer which vehicle it is for, and then the correct kit for the vehicle in question is sent. So that that misleading really...
Dave.
- ignitionland
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...so then there is one in existence which DOES fit the BIS.. According to them?
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It seams so, but I´m not convinced at all...
You can contact him, hopefully he'll have it, if pretending to.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-126-bis-700cc-distributor-Electronic-Ignition-conversion-Ultra-Spark-/120848644005?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c2323f7a5
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No Still Won't FIT
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Oh ye of little faith :o
The big problem here is that these guys are not going to have expensive base plates made for a very limited run so it probably aint going to happen "off the shelf". Who dares wins , the module just fixes to the base plate with two screws, so could be swopped over from points with a bit of fettling. If the magnet is too small for the cam then the cam could just be ground down till it does fit ;D
If it works you get electronic ignition on a Bis :)
If not you just wrote off a Bis distributor :$
Reckon it is worth a go.
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That Rusty knows his nuts!! ;)
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If I had a spare BIS dizzy and done spare ££ I'd probably have a bash
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Here we had the same discussion http://club126uk.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=6505.15 :)
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sorry to bring this subject up
ive just read camper x bus in there they are fitting a pertronix to the dizzy page82 (camper is water cooled)
there is a magnetic collar that goes over the drive spindle and a pickup that fits where points are wires go to the coil
not sure if the collar would fit the bis dizzy drive spindle
there is also a catalog for just kampers who do right hand wiper arms
I thought id mention just in case this was an option for bis further investigation is needed
f
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Try'Bestek' he made me a electronic ignition for my mini back in 1999 he works out of his workshop down near Gatwick and his Knowledge is infalable!
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I have bought from Accuspark on ebay. And since I have a bis I will have to modify the dizzy. :) but I have to modify it anyways, so it works on pressure and not vacuum. :) Will share my experience when I get the accuspark. :)
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I have bought from Accuspark on ebay. And since I have a bis I will have to modify the dizzy. :) but I have to modify it anyways, so it works on pressure and not vacuum. :) Will share my experience when I get the accuspark. :)
You'll be a club126 hero if you made a step by step guide with pictures, too! :D
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I will try to remember to take pictures. :) Just have to wait to I get the accuspark. think in one week I have it :)
I have bought from Accuspark on ebay. And since I have a bis I will have to modify the dizzy. :) but I have to modify it anyways, so it works on pressure and not vacuum. :) Will share my experience when I get the accuspark. :)
You'll be a club126 hero if you made a step by step guide with pictures, too! :D
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got the accuspark today! so goingto tryto fit it in the weekend. :)
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Excellent stuff! Looking forward to the result. Don't forget the pictures :P hehe
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Anything that will increase performance and reduce breakdowns and motoring stress has to be worth it.
Been thinking about it for a while, so think I will go for it also whilst im buying new bits I will add it to the list. I can't be doing with adjusting points :$
Tom
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Ok. Here goes!
It was not very hard to make it fit in a BIS.
First you have to take it apart. so you have the plate that the point are attached to. take of the point the black wire.
Then take the round thing in the kit, you have to modify this a little, it is a edge on one side, you have to remove this so it can slide futher down.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img543/8316/img1166hk.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img40/9181/img1168y.JPG)
Now you have to insert the plate in the distuber again. mount the ring in, and now you have to place the module and you have to marked where it going to be attached.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img194/5562/img1171n.jpg)
Now you have to drill the holes you marked up. You have to drill through both plates, and use a M3 tap to make thread, you can make thread through both plates. (The screws go through just the top plate when you use the screws that came with the module. use only the small washer.)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img824/1238/img1174bs.jpg)
Now you can attached the module with the screws.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img20/9564/img1175x.jpg)
And mount everything togheter.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img17/8172/img1179jrp.jpg)
:)
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Wow! Does it work ok? Any problems?
You're a genius.
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it workes very good. cars starts easier and reving good! :) haven't got any problems
But remeber to add som termal paste under the module before you mount it so it's not overheating. :)
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Excellent! You say place it 1 - 2mm away, how important is this? I wouldn't wanna get it wrong!
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it's not so important. but just have a small gap. it reads of a magnet, so don't think it's not going to work say if you place it 3mm from.. :)
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Well done Jokke ;D I always thought that this was possible but do not have a Bis to try it on. I wonder what you use for thermal paste but I also think that it is probably less important on a Bis engine as the engine is less hot being water cooled. Also are you still making use of the Bis vacuum advance as drilling & tapping both plates will stop this if the module mounting screws go through both plates but if I read you right then you drill through and tap both plates but the supplied M3 mounting screws only go into the top plate. I just checked the magnet to module clearance on a couple of air cooled distributors and the gap is about 1.5 mms.
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just use termal paste from computer cpu. is just for getting maximum contact beween the module and the plate it's mounted on. The screws that was in the kit is short enough to use so they just going in the first plate. so vacuum is working fine. :) ok, so 1.5 mm is optimal gap. good to know. :)
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I'm also happy to see that idea in action 8) Well done!
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BIS OWNERS!
I am going to try this, and the kit is on offer! It is the correct kit, right?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190569972829?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
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Scrap that, I've gone for the Powerspark one. A couple of pennies more expensive but I've heard the customer service is brilliant.
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Seems allot of trouble to fit :o You might even need to take the engine out to stick the sensor on the flywheel. you will also need according to the diagram a twin coil pack, Where the accuspark has 2 wires :D
http://www.power-spark.de/index_en.html
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Really? Surely it's just plug and play apart from modifying the plate inside the dizzy? I'm only going to try as Jokke has made it work with pictures and my timing all needs sorting anyway! A small price to pay even if it doesn't work I reckon. No more points resetting and blown condensers :)
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Thought you were going for the more expensive setup as below, If your going for the identical accuspark/powerspark that's O.K.
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Ohh, sorry for the confusion - you had me worried there! Yes just the points replacement :) if I am successful I reckon ANYONE could do it :P
Certainly seems the better option than to pay £95 + £??? To send off your own dizzy to have it fitted.
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Jokke - where did you connect the black & red wires? I assume black goes to a chassis earth?
And the red?
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Jokke - where did you connect the black & red wires? I assume black goes to a chassis earth?
And the red?
They goes to the coil. Red on + and black on - :)
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That sounds painfully easy! I had a feeling it would be different wiring because of the different coil to air cooled. Thanks mate :)
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did it fire? :thumbup
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It did! Ran beautifully until the engine warmed up then it cut out and wouldn't restart. We have tried everything and narrowed it down to the coil being crap. It's the original one as well. New one ordered :)
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Well Done Kev for getting it to fit :thumbup unfortunately its not advisable to use the + feed on the coil because of the ballast resister wire, this maybe the problem, it should be wired as the accuspark instructions. diagram below.
This is how a ballast coil works
Why do some ignition systems have a ballast fitted where others do not?
Originally, all ignition systems did not have a ballast fitted which meant that the ignition system used a 12v coil with a 12v feed from the battery via the ignition switch. Such a system works fine when an engine is running, but problems can occur when starting the engine. The starter motor draws a huge current from the battery leaving less energy to create a spark across the spark plugs. The result is a weaker than normal spark which is not ideal for starting an engine. This problem is worsened by colder temperatures and/or a worn starter motor which will draw even more energy for starting and leave even less energy for sparking. To overcome such a problem, ignition systems were changed to run a lower voltage coil (usually 9v), and these coils could still give the same output as the original 12v coils. In order to run such a coil, the 12v ignition feed runs through a ballast, reducing it to 9v at the coil. To assist starting, a 12v feed (usually from the starter) bypasses the 9v ignition feed, giving the 9v coil a 12v feed. The result is a better than normal spark which is ideal for starting, particularly on cold damp mornings. As soon as the engine has started, the 12v feed is cut and the coil will run on the 9v ignition feed.
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Do our 126's have a ballast resister?
The engine will only start once it has cooled down or is from cold. When it does, it will run on one cylinder until you rev it loads then it runs on two. The sparkers will show a dim light until you rev it loads then they both shine brightly. The idle is very, very rough like it was when I had the air leak problem. I'm starting to think it was the coil all along now.
Adjusting the timing just makes the rough idle faster or slower. Once I fit the new coil we shall see what happens, but the electronic ignition works great and I heard the difference as soon as I turned the key :thumbup
Yesterday before I fit the ignition, it was juddering again when driving as well ::)
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check the basics, has the coil got good earth all wires attached
is 'dwell angle' mentioned in your destructions
check the alt is charging on idle x low revs ;D
f
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It's all fine F, spent hours and hours sourcing the problem and they all seem to lead to the coil. Nothing on instructions about dwell angle.
Jokke has wired it the same way and he has had no problems so it surely can't be anything to do with ballasts? I'm just confused :(
Hopefully when the coil arrives, it'll plug and play beautifully :) ill let you all know in the week.
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I diden't have any ballast on mine. :) and no problem starting or stalling. :)
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I diden't have any ballast on mine. :) and no problem starting or stalling. :)
It's gotta be my coil! Thanks for all the info so far mate :) I did a quick video before all the problems started occurring!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdsEenDRe_g[/youtube]
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Bis's coil is ballasted like all the other 126 with double coil (before EL/X) by wire! The square one on the pic below. You must power the electronic module before that cable - a sky blue one #55.
http://www.pf126.ovh.org/elementy/danetechniczne/schematy/7.jpg
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The sky blue wire plugs onto the male spade on my coil, and on the male spade right next to it, we've ran a wire to the positive part of the new electric module.
The cable on the very far right is the sky blue one already on the car. The cable next to that (with the red connecter) runs to the module. The left hand cable runs to the black wire of the module.
(http://i.imgur.com/d7OyHdq.jpg)
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Exactly. You should conect the red one not on the coil, but on the other end of the blue one. Do not cut the blue cable, it's a special metal. The blue one is conected to an orange one somewhere around the rear left wheel. Now the module is powered with less than the nominal power of the system.
Read Pete126's post!
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I don't quite understand. If the sky blue wire is not connected to the coil, it will get no power? There will then only be one wire (left) connected to the coil. Is that correct?
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Right, so I have to follow the sky blue wire back into the car, and connect the new module wire to the wire it comes from?
To sum up: don't run the module power from the sky blue wire. Run the module power from a 12v feed instead. ?
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Bis don't have resistor:
(http://126bis.de/div/bis-55-23.gif)
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Jokke, is yours wired the same as mine in the picture I posted?
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Well, the scheme I've linked says other thing. Measure the sky blue cable, should be 1,7Ω :)
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Jokke, is yours wired the same as mine in the picture I posted?
yes. :) only I got one more from - on the coil, it's for my tach meter :)
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126 Bis - Workshop manual, Chapter 55, Page 13 ;)
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I don't think the running problem I'm experiencing is the module, but the coil itself. The car starts up fine from cold just not when the engine is warmed up. Surely it wouldn't start at all if the module was wired up wrong?
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if you had wired it wrong, it wouldn't start at all.
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My head needs a rest :o :P
If my new coil works and it's all good I will be over the moon
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Hi Kev,
To put it another way the twin spark coil runs on 9 volts, the battery voltage is 12 volts, if you were to run the coil at a constant 12 volts you would burn the coil out because it is supposed to run at 9 volts, so what they do is run the 12 volts through a ballast wire or block, What this does is when the engine is cold when you start the engine 12 volts is supplied to the coil which gives you a whopping spark to start the engine, as the ballast resistance wire warms up it reduces the voltage to 9 volts so as to not burn out the coil.
When you connect the ignition module to the + side of the coil it will start and run until the voltage eventually drops to 9 volts, that is why you need to take the + feed direct from the 12 volt supply from the fuse box as in the instruction :thumbup because the module needs to have a constant 12 volt supply to work correctly.
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I'm with you now Pete! So in theory, I could plug in the module to ANY 12v feed as the information is sent to the coil via the earth wire?
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You got it, Try taking the power from the electric pump.
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Before buying a new coil, measure the one you have.
Magneti-Marelli BZ600A
Primary winding 1,48Ω +/-4%
Secondary winding 9000Ω +/-10%
Aditional external ballast (wire) 1,70Ω +/-5%