Author Topic: Can a BIS...  (Read 3914 times)

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Xylaquin

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Can a BIS...
« on: February 23, 2015, 09:37:24 PM »
I've seen a BIS for £800 and am very tempted to get it. My concern is, judging by the amount of tweaking you guys describe on this forum, is it worth it?

How much actual driving does everyone here do, as it seems that nearly every member has to do repairs frequently. I am well aware that Fiats of a certain age are not as reliable as they are today, but this BIS I have seen has done 10k miles and aesthetically looks good since it's been kept inside.

My initial thoughts are it needs a new battery, oil change and engine flush. But since you guys are pros, take a look at this engine pic. Does it just need a clean do you reckon?


I'm hoping to do frequent 15 mile journeys in the BIS, with a mix of A road and town driving... maybe about 9000 miles a year. Is the BIS up to that amount?

1973/126

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2015, 11:16:05 PM »
 I think the bis boys will have to answer this one.
 
 I sold some engine parts recently to a guy who uses his classic 500 as an everyday car. He told me he has done over 20k mls in the last two years in it :o. It`s air cooled mind you ;D

 It will only be as reliable as you make it.
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

Pete126

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2015, 11:17:31 PM »
The problem isn't the car whether its the air cooled or Bis, Its because they weren't serviced regularly, the centrifugal oil filter weren't cleaned out because to do the job you have to remove the back panel, BTW never use an oil flush on these engines. As for the Bis the cooling system needs flushing out every couple of years, Old cars need looking after :) Do that and you build in reliability :D    
Pete.      il cavallo piccolo

drcdb15

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2015, 11:19:34 PM »
I would have thought a BIS in good condition would be well suited to a 30-miles-a-day round trip. Most baby Fiats in the UK had short lives due to bodywork corrosion rather than mechanical failure, plus the (at the time) increasing availability of larger, better performance cars at ever cheaper prices. If you plan to use your BIS as a daily driver, it should be fine provided it has been properly serviced during its past life, you keep it properly and regularly serviced, and when it is repaired, it is repaired properly with the right parts and not bodged to save time and money.

Getting some parts may take time as they are nor readily available on every high street, so allow up to a week for a part to arrive by post from Germany (or Slough!). Equally, the cars will be unknown to the younger generations of garage mechanics, so not every garage will know how to repair them to the best level of expertise.

Your plan will be fine when the car is running, but you need to plan also for when it might not be. And this is true for any car, even a brand new Porsche (of which I happened to see one on the back of a recovery truck on the M25 this very afternoon!).

So you need to know which friendly, knowledgeable and affordable garage will fix the car for you (if you cannot fix it yourself), and you need to have a Plan B transport arrangement (the bus, a lift from a mate, working from home etc) for the days you may have to be off the road while waiting for parts or repairs. But be sensible about estimating this. If the car is used regularly for reasonably long runs as you describe it will benefit from being regularly warm, and aired, and with all the moving parts like bearings and suspension actually being moved rather than just stood still for 20 years.

You will doubtless find residual weaknesses from age (for example, water hoses that may only have done 10K miles but may now be 20 years old) become apparent, but as these get fixed you may well find reliability improves substantially, and quite quickly.

It would obviously also be prudent to have membership of a rescue service to get the car to a place where it can be fixed if it breaks down mid-journey. My own recommendation based on over 40 years of belonging to such organisations from the AA downwards is Britannia Rescue. They cover the DRIVER, not the car, so they will rescue you whatever you are in. They got me home once when I was merely a passenger in a car with no other rescue cover, but they've also bailed me out with things as diverse as simply running out of petrol (how embarrassing was THAT !!) to a kit car 5 miles from home and a classic car failing in the snow over Shap at midnight. And all for around £80/year.

IIRC, the Bis suffered only one major design flaw and that was in the location of the thermostat. Others more expert than me will correct me, but I seem to recall there is a well-documented solution to this by rearranging the hoses so the thermostat is at a different position in the cooling circuit. But don't quote me on that !

drcdb15

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2015, 11:26:12 PM »
... or it may be that I'm thinking of the Hillman Imp...  as I said, don't quote me!

stuey

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2015, 12:03:46 AM »
Or just remove the thermostat all together...
one resprayed and another arrives- double trouble BIS style!!

Xylaquin

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2015, 03:10:05 AM »
Thanks for the replies all.

Why is an engine flush a bad idea, Pete?

Just reading up about oil changes on this car, it's clear it's not the conventional sump and filter system I'm used to. Is the centrifugal filter actually part of the engine? It would explain the overly complex looking oil change procedure (removing body parts!?) I don't mind doing car maintenance, but I'm certainly an amateur. I've only done an oil change, replaced an air filter and topped up my screenwash ::)

Forgive my naivety but wouldn't removing the thermostat cause a constant warning light and persistent fan?

Pete126

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2015, 07:06:02 AM »
Because there is no paper filter to catch the crud, using an engine flush can loosen the dirt and send it round the engine again, check this out and you'll see what i mean http://club126uk.co.uk/index.php?pid=6
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 07:35:07 AM by Pete126 »
Pete.      il cavallo piccolo

Henmiester

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2015, 09:46:10 AM »
Hi. I've had my fair share of headaches with my BIS since getting it. Most was down to old age and not be used for a while. Bearing in mind mines 24 years old. They werent designed to last that long so apart from the thermostat issue. There well made cars. The key to keeping my bis running is daily use and making sure the fuel system and ignition system is working properly. There so easy to work on/fix you quickly learn why something has gone wrong. All cars if this age need some tinkering its part of the fun of owning one. Dont be put off. Once youve replaced everything you'll have a new car. Rust for me is a big issue as i can't weld. Simon.

Gadge

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2015, 01:23:59 PM »
I used to use mine as a daily driver for about 6 months. I've found that they are very cappable cars - just a tad basic :D there noisey, bumpy and people point and stare but they are seriously great fun to drive!

As for reliability they do (in my opinion) have a design flaw which is its cooling system or more to the point (as mentioned above) is the thermostat location. It's at the bottom so it opens ups well after the head reaches its optimum temperature. So any boiling water sits in the head until the stat opens which causes gasket issues. Removing the stat sorts that out. I have a thermostat relocation kit which moves the stat to the top by the head where it should be. I also run waterless coolant which is fantastic stuff. A recent trip up the motorway seen the temp gauge sit just over half way up the gauge all the way up and back. Their mechanically simple so servicing is a doddle :)
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poxxxy

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2015, 12:00:42 AM »
As long as the system is bled well then its all good... if you have water boiling in the top of the head and its not moving around then really you have an air lock although the system isn't particularly pressurized and runs at about 1 bar atmospheric pressure IIRC.

But yes... you will need to be hands on, or have a trusted garage that will look for the right information before taking on the work! :).

The engine looks complete as far as I can see... if its in use and reliable then I wouldn't worry too much if it runs well. They take a while to warm up and behave under throttle/load or at least mine does, have to have it on pretty much full choke otherwise!

Check out my thread on my car if you want to have any idea although mine was bought as a non working problem filled adventure. lol.
My 1991/2 Fiat 126 BIS Restoration: http://club126uk.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8559.90

drcdb15

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2015, 08:25:12 PM »

As for reliability they do (in my opinion) have a design flaw which is its cooling system or more to the point (as mentioned above) is the thermostat location. It's at the bottom so it opens ups well after the head reaches its optimum temperature. So any boiling water sits in the head until the stat opens which causes gasket issues. Removing the stat sorts that out. I have a thermostat relocation kit which moves the stat to the top by the head where it should be.

Thanks for the clarification, Gadge, seems my old brain cell is not entirely exhausted!

Xylaquin

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2015, 09:49:37 PM »
Gah, I left it too late. Someone else snapped up the BIS.

Why is it called BIS anyway... What does that stand for?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 11:48:15 PM by Xylaquin »

poxxxy

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2015, 12:23:45 AM »
I think it means "again/repeat/encore" in some languages (french/italian)... so it would be The Fiat 126... again :)... lol.
My 1991/2 Fiat 126 BIS Restoration: http://club126uk.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8559.90

1973/126

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Re: Can a BIS...
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2015, 07:33:03 AM »
 I thought it stood for: boils in seconds :$
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126