turbocharger?

[Chris Lakin]

i know somone who has just sold a visa for £250!

but Pual, why would someone lump a visa engine in? when they could tune a 650cc engine? and get equal bhp?

regards

Chris

[Pete126]

looks like an awesome conversion, i have a honda cx500 bike. its been stood in the garage for the last 6yrs and allas the rust worms have started eating the frame i have been toying with the idea of converting it to fit in my 126bis my idea is to do as much of the conversion out of the car so i can still use it, i think it will just do the job, although the honda cx500 is only 496cc,  80deg' vtwin, water cooled, 4 valves per cyl its quite a small unit and very reliable, its found its way into many kit cars like the morgan look alikes and packs quite a bit of punch 50hp/38kw and a flat torque curve between 3000 to7000 rpm maxium torque @ 7000rpm 32ft-lb/43nm which should be kind to the gear box. i was going to use the bike gearbox until i thought, no reverse gear as like any other conversion it won't be easy as iv'e found out over the years. if anyone has done a conversion of this type or can give any helpful tips it would be much appreciated

[paul harbinson.]

Hello Paul,the reason your having trouble getting one of those engines is aircooled visa's are very thin on the ground.Same engine is in the 2cv,dyane etc I know a guy how has at least a dozen of them in his shed .Give me a shout if you want any more info.Cheers,Paul

[Darkhorse]

I am so impressed with that conversion, it looks so damn neat.
The czech 500's (steyr-puch) had a horizontal flat opposed twin so it seems a sensible conversion to just go a bit bigger!!

well done for including that Paul

[fiatfsm]

The CX500 engine in a BIS sounds brilliant, true it is a great little lump.. what about a CX650 Turbo though!?!? Now that would be awseome

[fiatfsm]

Just looked at the pic of the aircooled froggie engine in the 500, one thought... how the helll do you get to the points? Its bad enough on a 2CV! For those that dont know, they are in a box behind the fan! Really nice job when they have closed up on a dark, wet and windy night. If you really wanted one there are loads of 2CV specialists out there.

[PaulB]

It has no points. It has electronic ignition as standard though it seems that needs modding to be reliable. The fiat's ignition is sh*te and the cause of 95% of my problems. Electronic ignition for the 126 is, like all 500/126 tuning parts, over-priced.

Other plus points for the citroen Visa engine:
- Its 35bhp for about £400, that's before any tuning...
- *I think* the engine is essentially a steyr puch that citroen have developed, so as darkhorse said, its not entirely out of place in a baby Fiat. Citroen's early engine for the 2cv was less than pointless - pushing was more effective (9bhp I think).
- As a flat twin more of the power will be reaching the wheels, less will be throwing the engine about
- Its got nearly 30% more grunt than a stock 126 engine, still leaves a 126/Panda 30 head and carb standing
- I'm not sure on this  bit - my stock 126 engines start to top-out at around 3500 rpm (stock cam - FSM should do better) - the citroen will manage higher rpm (need to check this) - if true then the top speed will go way up without upgrading the gearbox. In my 500 (stock 126 652cc and g/box) I run out of revs at about 72mph (probably could go higher but the engine is screaming at 75mph). Martin reckons his 500/Visa is good for 80mph+ (My 126 aircooler runs out of power before it runs out of revs thanks to the biscuit tin aerodynamics and extra weight)
- torque
- it just looks the business
- always better to scrap a citroen for an engine than a Fiat!


down sides:
- ground clearance
- will get snubbed by purists (maybe that's an advantage?)
- will have to start hanging round 2cv drivers for the science

the 2cv/dyanne had an earlier 600cc flat twin, which managed to reach an impressive 32bhp, but most were more like 28bhp so no point in putting one in without tuning it. 2cv racers often use a tuned Visa engine.

Darkhorse - there's a few oblique comments about turbos on the 500 club board. I think one problem is the cylinder arrangement on the Fiat which makes it hard to spin up a turbo (both cylinders move in unison). The other is keeping the cyinders and head cool - keen to see how well yours works.

[PaulB]

Off on another tangent here (still inspired by the turbo though...) Stock aircooled 126 engine has the large cooling fan forcing air down its throat, but a cruddy paper filter choking it. A popular mod is to block the air filter and suck air through a less restrictive after market filter in the engine compartment. This reduces the restriction, but loses the thrust of the fan and means sucking in hot air (not good) Has anyone come across a decent replacement for the paper filter so there is still the benefit of the thrust/cold air from the fan?

[fiatfsm]

interesting, I never knew that Visa engine wasnt a normal 2CV lump, glad to see they dumped the points system as it was a real pig to get to them! I have nowt against 2CVs, they are very good for what they do, and that engine will really rev hard, but it hasnt the character of the 126 engine :wink: Interesting that you find the Fiat ignition crap, its been in use for years and if set up right will be very reliable, its so simple I cant understand anyone having problems. Think you will find French electrics to be troublesome though :shock: there is an aftermarket electronic kit for the 2CV called 123 ignition but opinions are divided on its reliabilty too. still, is the most interesting engine convrsion I have seen, at least its aircooled and a twin, should be cool

[PaulB]

Aside from the points tendency to close on three lane roundabouts or in pitch darkness/rain, the condensors to fry or the cap to short out, the ignition is fine. The Polish square twin coils are solid though - and get rid of the cap and rotor.
Not just a Fiat problem - I'd guess that most roadside stops in older cars would be ignition trouble (or maybe cooling for steam-driven cars like the BIS?).

[gregs656]

that conversion is sweet . . . ive always fancied doing something like that.

ever since i saw a mini on the telly with 2! yammy r1 engines in . . . .wow

[Chris Lakin]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RENAULT-MASTER-2-5-dci-TURBO-TURBOCHARGER_W0QQitemZ4600968590QQcategoryZ10410QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[PaulB]

There's a place called Silly CVs that turbo-charged a Citroen 2cv (with large barrels - 650cc) which racked up 68bhp..They may have some useful info for the attempt on a 126 engine. Their site mentions racing 2cvs with fuel injected 602cc engines racing at 120mph, which made me wonder whether injection was a more viable direction?


http://www.sillycvs.co.uk/02LastProjectCar.htm#

Edit: Just spotted their latest project for those of thinking of bike engine conversions (and for those with a deathwish) - 160bhp Honda powered 2cv...

 http://www.sillycvs.co.uk/04latestProjectCar.htm

[paul harbinson.]

My '95 runs's on a dizzyless ignition and so far(touch wood) no prob's.The bloody thing goe's like a rocket (well 126 engined rocket) had it at 78 but ran out of duel carrageway.

[Chris Lakin]

blimey paul 78? going down bennevis? or on a level road?  

so your aircooled has the same ignition as the BIS?

nigel (Hudsonhenry) has this motor bike ignition, its a tiny little black box in his 500, he did explain to me more about it, but i cant remember.

regards

Chris