Author Topic: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(  (Read 18518 times)

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drcdb15

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #90 on: July 21, 2016, 02:32:31 PM »
all will be type approved as the basic chassis/cab has not been altered, cutting a monocoque chassis I would think is a different kettle of fish.


Yes, you took the words out of my mouth. As each stage gets approved so the next stage can go ahead, provided nothing is done which negates the approval already given to an earlier stage.

So in your commercial vehicle example, a chassis will have specific mounting points for the bodywork it's intended for, and it will have a suspension spec'd to carry a specific range of weight in the body, etc. If the subsequent coachbuilder suddenly takes it upon himself to go away from those limits, then he will negate the earlier approval and have to start over again for the whole vehicle.

So if say the chassis was specc'd for an ambulance, body weight a few hundred kgs, but the coachbuilder then decided to fit a tipper truck body, capacity 30 tonnes, it's a fair bet the suspension (and hence the whole vehicle) would no longer be safe.


thepuddlejumper

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #91 on: July 21, 2016, 05:10:44 PM »
Guys, guys this is getting a bit deep and to a technical level in legislation that I am not knowledgable. The paragraph I highlighted was that a paragraph from a lot of technical documents which gave some avenue a small volume builder could use. After all you can re-body a car and you do not require an SVA test. Like the Cool 500, Simpatico and the Barcheta. Now to build a Barcheta you have to remove the 126 or 500 body and only use the floor pan, this has to be strengthened to stop it buckling. Therefore have you modified the monocock??? Anyway If I were to buy a kit to fit a 200bhp bike engine in the back of my car I would ensure all documents were in place prior to handing over any cash.  If you are in your own wee garage doing the same without the certs then you have to go through the SVA test. That is why I have opted to fit a Subaru engine mated to a 126 box in one of my cars, no modification to the car to get it to fit in.

Ralph

thepuddlejumper

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #92 on: July 24, 2016, 09:48:47 AM »
I have a Cool 500 which I believe was built by the kit manufacturer, well that's what I was told, anyway because of all this discussion I decided to check on how to register it if it turns out it hasn't. There is a massive amount of discussion on the net regarding registering kits cars, modified vehicles and hot rods and most of it contradicts itself. Now I found this leaflet of all places on a Volvo site?? The leaflet is a DVLA document which explains how to do it. Now ACE hava a letter from the DVLA or VOSA which states you do not need a receipt for an alternative body but the guide states you do, therefore as some of the sites suggest sometimes it all depends on the officer processing your application as the rules are so vague. See link below

http://www.volvoenthusiastsclub.co.uk/pdf/dvla%20vehicle%20approval.pdf

A rough rule of thumb hot Rodders use is you don't cut the chassis or monocoque as this would require an IVA, SVA or MSVA whichever is appropriate it' the other bits which have to be modified to fit the chassis or monocoque I.e. If you have a Suzuki SJ chassis and you wanted to fit an old say 126 body to it you would modify the body to fit the Suzuki chassis not the other way round.

Hope this helps

Ralph
« Last Edit: July 24, 2016, 10:07:53 AM by thepuddlejumper »

thepuddlejumper

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #93 on: August 05, 2016, 09:45:30 PM »
Hi all, just received an email to my enquiry to Z cars re bike engined conversion see reply below, still not sure how doing the cut and shunt to fit the engine at home complies ?? Might have to have the conversion done at Z cars.

Hi Ralph,

Apologies for the delayed response. I have been in Spain over the past few weeks looking for Fiat 500 and Minis to act as donor cars for our development fleet. I cannot provide all the answers at this time as we need to build and test our cars and ensure the kits are fit for purpose before we begin selling them. We will have a Hayabusa with a QBA drive and a Subaru engine. We are currently researching other Subaru engines as the engines are rare and then there is the issue of the gearbox having to be adapted as the engine is turned round requiring reverse gears to act as forward gears and a single forward gear acting as the revised reverse. I hope that makes sense!

The choice of either conversion from a kit only perspective is far cheaper than the Mini, but the rarity or exclusivity of both engines and as previously mentioned, the gear set kit required to flip the drive gears, means the hardware is pricey before you factor in labour.

On the SVA, we are looking at having the cars put through rigorous tests in one the EU regions, as we understand passing the registration regulations for limited run cars, lessens the burden of gaining the necessary certification in other EU member states, plus the admin can be reused to help satisfy obligations in further countries.

Prices can only be determined once we have our demo fleet completed. Apologies if this is disappointing news, but we must develop these kits responsibly.

Regards

David

« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 09:49:01 PM by thepuddlejumper »

1973/126

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #94 on: August 06, 2016, 10:20:33 AM »
 I wish I had enough money to take a 126 to Z Cars and just let them get on with it. I like that new bike engine set up they are planning for 500s.

 BTW as to DVLA and registration and all that. I had a fair share of my problems with them recently, as they only know black and white. Anything out of ordinary and you run into problems.
 I tried to re-register one of my 126 based kit cars recently. Unfortunately it doidn`t work out. After couple of months sending letters and documents back and forth they said the original 126 registration and VIN numbers are void. I got issued a new VIN number, was told it needs an IVA test and it will go on a Q plate. I`ll probably not go ahead with it because of the cost of the IVA test. The value of the kit car is not that great, so might just sell it as an off road buggy or something.
 I`ve got loads of other first hand experiences with DVLA, but it would be about couple of pages worth of writing.
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

thepuddlejumper

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #95 on: August 06, 2016, 02:59:50 PM »
Hi, I am in the process of re-registering my 126 based kit, was your kit on a sorn ?

Ralph

1973/126

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #96 on: August 06, 2016, 03:08:47 PM »
 I bought this kit car without a log book. Had the original number plates and when I looked the reg. up it still come up as a Fiat 126 De Ville. I had the original paperwork from back in the day including the bill of sale for the kit. This was all issued to the same guy who we bought the kit car from, so all would have been in his name, same as the 126 donor car. Unfortunately this didn`t make any difference.
 So when I tried to apply for a log book and DVLA realised it was a kit car, they just refused it. As I said the only way I could get it registered now would be IVA and a Q plate.
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

drcdb15

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #97 on: August 07, 2016, 12:29:09 AM »
I bought this kit car without a log book. ....
 So when I tried to apply for a log book and DVLA realised it was a kit car, they just refused it. As I said the only way I could get it registered now would be IVA and a Q plate.
This is a real shame Ladislav, as your previous contact with DVLA over the CC Zero I now have was very positive. If DVLA said the original registration was void, then presumably at some point a previous owner must have completed a Certificate of Destruction for it.

Can I ask, is the car in question your other CC Zero, or is it the MCA? And how much would the IVA test cost?

1973/126

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #98 on: August 07, 2016, 08:12:03 AM »
 Yes the car in question is a CCZero. The reg number still came up through car check sites as a Fiat 126, so I don`t think it was scraped.
 The reason why the said the original 126 reg number and vin is now void, because the CCZero has it`s unique chassis number and it didn`t tie up with what they had on the system for that 126 registration, which it of course wouldn`t.
 The kit was completed back in the day, but it was never properly registered and the owner passed away. 
 
 From what I understand the IVA test for mine would be £450 + £90 for re-inspection if it doesn`t pass the first time. I guess there is also the first registration fee of £55 on top plus the cost of trailering or recoovering the vehicle to the nearest IVA test centre.
 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/individual-vehicle-approval-inspection-fees/individual-vehicle-approval-iva-inspection-fees-from-1-october-2014#iva-passenger-vehicles
 I would of course need to follow all the IVA guidelines to make sure my kit car complies.
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

thepuddlejumper

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #99 on: August 07, 2016, 08:33:30 AM »
I agree a real shame, I have only seen one cc zero on the road this was many years ago. The car came from the Airdrie area just outside Glasgow, I tried to find it to see if it could be bought but no luck.  The locost, lotus 7 and  caterham builders have a wealth of information on passing the test and this subject of not being properly registered, it seems a few these cars sold on eBay were still registered as the downer vehicle. Best of luck with whichever way you decide to go.

Ralph

99flake

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #100 on: September 02, 2016, 07:42:48 PM »
Not posted here for a long time, but was drawn to this post as I was interested in buying the 2.1 Pinto 126 after seeing it on eBay.
I've managed to find out it's still available,  but am still waiting on a reply regarding v5 / legality of it all.
Reading through this post has certainly been an eye opener though - I always knew changing an engine size could have its issues but didn't realise quite how much.
It will be interesting to see if I get an answer from the seller, but reading this post has been very helpful.

Gadge

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #101 on: September 03, 2016, 09:29:05 AM »
Is it a blue one? If it is then I've actually seen it and it's very well made - nothing at all like the bodge it and ratchet bike engined stuff you usually see on eBay. It was built by a guy who I belive builds hot rods ( or race cars I can't remember exactly what he said) but it was LOUD when he started it up. It was an excellent conversion.
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thepuddlejumper

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #102 on: September 03, 2016, 02:03:24 PM »
Was this the blue 126 featured in Practical Perfomance CAR and on eBay, if it is I was also interested in it and I also asked the question on SVA etc. but I have had no reply as yet. There is no doubt regarding the quality of the build, the builder according to the feature was Charlie Emerick, who specialises in building Ford pop hot rods. The mag issue is No 129 January 2015 if you would like more information on the build.

Ralph

99flake

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #103 on: September 03, 2016, 02:49:06 PM »
Yep, the blue one.
It did look like a quality build from the photos,  just a shame that at the moment there doesn't seem to be an answer regarding the legal side of things.

Gadge

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Re: Another bike engined project bites the dust :(
« Reply #104 on: September 03, 2016, 04:47:13 PM »
If it's not road legal then it would need much ild say. Everything was or can be there regarding lights, seat belts etc it may need the emissions looking at as it was well rich when I heard it start up.
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