Author Topic: 'ardest job in the world !  (Read 3421 times)

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Rusty's Uncle

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'ardest job in the world !
« on: May 26, 2012, 06:51:17 PM »
Not a job I was looking forward to but I have a 499ccs crankcase (Fiat 500) and one from a 126 652ccs that were both in disgusting condition. The 500 one came with a job lot over 25 years ago and got dumped in my shed ever since and the 126 one came from another forum member who was going to scrap an engine that had been left outside for about 15 years. They are both pretty sound needing only minor repairs. I started working on them at about 6.30am , took acouple of breaks & finished about 5pm . Hours spent washing with petrol, scraping and brushing followed by Autoglym engine cleaner and a pressure wash. The 500 one has come up quite well but it looks like the 126 engine will have a distinct "rat look"   :$

Tate

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2012, 08:21:48 PM »
Ciao Rusty!

I'm also on my engine. Today I got it finally dismantled. Now it will need a lot of money a little bit of time.. Next step is to start cleaning..  :-X



Fiat 126 -73 project
2 x BMW E21

Rusty's Uncle

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2012, 01:08:46 PM »
Tate that already looks clean to me compared with what I have just tackled  :D :D
So I did not get any stick for posting "engine cleaning" in the tuning section.  :P
Set the wheels in motion this morning for two of my engine rebuilds. My scored 126 "new" barrels from last years engine disaster are in for reboring & the oversize will give a 662ccs engine. This engine will get an alloy sump, Bis crankshaft, my original Abarth camshaft, electronic ignition, lighter flywheel, uprated clutch, sports exhaust and a cylinder head from a 594ccs 500R that was prepared by Middle Barton Garage and is as yet untried by me but looks promising. Just to be boring I will start with a standard carb for start up but a Dellorto fzd could be fitted later.
Also took in the 500 crankcase to have it bored out to take 652ccs barrels. I will need a strengthening / spacer to go under the 126 barrels . I see that Nanni do them but any ideas on other suppliers / manufacturers welcomed. Any back street engineers out there ? This engine is intended to be the "Wolf in Sheep's"  :o . Stock on the outside but with naughty bits  ;D

1973/126

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2012, 10:13:35 PM »
 Rusty man is this what you are after?
 Half price compared to Nanni.

 http://www.500mania.it/ns/index.php/store_gbr/prodotti/engine/cylinders-and-pistons?p=3
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

gsxr126

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2012, 12:35:27 AM »
Would that spacer that 1973 put up need to be bored to match the base of your overbored cylinders? Dont know but just a thought.

Have you done any comp ratio calcs. I heard that 10.5 is about the max you can go on a stock style engine. Might be worthwhile calculating this before you buy a head gasket.

The Good - White Niki all Std Daily Driver, The Bad - Black Niki GSXR1300 BMW diff & suspension, The Ugly - Red Niki quietly Rusting In Peace

Rusty's Uncle

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2012, 07:27:36 PM »
Rusty man is this what you are after?
 Half price compared to Nanni.

 http://www.500mania.it/ns/index.php/store_gbr/prodotti/engine/cylinders-and-pistons?p=3

I knew that you were the Lad for the job !   ;D

GSXR , I have ordered the one that I hope is the right one and as they list the spacers for different oversize bores I am assuming that they are made to suit. As for compression ratios I am just going to wing it as both of these engines are going to be experimental, actualy more mental ! I know that the 594 ported head has been skimmed by a bit over 2mms and I am going to fit my much worked upon on 499ccs head to the 652ccs "Fiat 500" engine. However before I fit them I am going to check to see how the combustion chambers line up with the bores so there may be further work there that may relieve the compression. So not wanting to do things by halves I thought that I might as well rebuild a stock 126 engine with all standard parts then I remembered that I have a part rebuilt 499ccs fiat 500 engine tucked away so I will probably finish that one as well  ;D

gsxr126

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2012, 01:35:56 AM »
Rusty, we always knew you were "actually more mental" but i love what you're doing with that motor. I went to an italian republic day meeting on the weekend and IMHO a 650 engine looks wrong in the back of a 500.

If the combustion chamber is smaller than the bore I would leave it alone as you want to retain as much metal as you can in the head, especially the 499 thats had port work done. You cant really change the shape of the chamber in that head and the smaller the area covering the bore, the greater the force will be exerted on the piston, if that makes sense. I once mucked around with chambers and created hot spots everywhere. When it comes to modifying heads " a little means alot and alot can mean very little" as in a junked head. Just my thoughts....

As for comp ratio, I suppose you can always pull the head off again and stick a copper gasket under it, but a 5 minute math exersize gives you great peace of mind.


Oh yeah, before i forget, if you have the head apart, get a three angle jobbie on the inlet valves. You'll thank yourself in spades if you do, especially on those engines.
The Good - White Niki all Std Daily Driver, The Bad - Black Niki GSXR1300 BMW diff & suspension, The Ugly - Red Niki quietly Rusting In Peace

Rusty's Uncle

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2012, 06:26:08 AM »


If the combustion chamber is smaller than the bore I would leave it alone as you want to retain as much metal as you can in the head, especially the 499 thats had port work done. You cant really change the shape of the chamber in that head and the smaller the area covering the bore, the greater the force will be exerted on the piston, if that makes sense. I once mucked around with chambers and created hot spots everywhere. When it comes to modifying heads " a little means alot and alot can mean very little" as in a junked head. Just my thoughts.

OK I will leave it alone and see how it goes. I have ordered the spacer , I think , as I went through the process in english then after I paid I got an e-mail all in Italian.
Crankshafts fitted in the two 126 engines. Camshaft & timing chain on one.

dajwid

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2012, 07:06:09 AM »
When can we look forward to a ' rebuilding engines' workshop?


Rusty's Uncle

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 08:32:55 PM »
Daj you are welcome to pop in anytime, I could do with an apprentice  ;D
Things are moving on . The spacer for the 652ccs 500 engine arrived today so fantastic service from 500 Mania. Bis crank and Abarth cam in one block , standard crank & cam in the backup 126 engine so far. Big result was finding that the 594ccs 500R engine had a "hot" cam fitted . Only identifying mark is 70 stamped on the side but it has a higher lift than the Abarth cam I have. Could be another Abarth cam similar to the one Alfons showed. Has lift of just over 0.3" on each lobe and looks to be hardened cast steel.  ;D

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2012, 02:17:08 PM »
Following the Haynes book of how to do it have now got to pistons , barrels & con rods. Just been fitting new piston rings which I think is a bit like extracting a fuse from a UEXB  :o
Oh the tension !

Alfons1972

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2012, 07:38:21 AM »
Hi Rusty, I'm sorry, I do not know the mark "70" on a cam...

for cleaning enginge parts I use alternately different means: break cleaner, a brass brush and detergent...  ;D
And, of course, a lot of handcraft...  ;) that works fine.

besides: Currently I'm building a engine based on a 500D-crankcase with 600ccm cylinders using similar spacers. It shall be a quite good copy of an Abarth engine using many genuine Abarth parts... With Solex 34PBIC carb on special valve cover, oil pan etc. etc...  ;D
Fiat 500 R
Fiat 500 giardiniera

Rusty's Uncle

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2012, 07:22:22 PM »
Alfons that engine sounds a good project so good luck with that. My engines are doing no miles on 2 gallons of petrol as so far I have used that much petrol to clean parts along with Autoglym engine cleaner plus all that scrubbing & brushing.
So far I have assembled a standard 652ccs engine with no ancilleries or tinware. Waiting on my bored out 500 crankcase and rebored 662ccs cylinders for the 126 engine but have prepared some parts in advance so I can move on quickly when I get those bits back. I rang the company today to check on progress . My work is next in line I am told, they just have to finish the Lamborghini engine  :o
The engine rebuilds were supposed to be an outdoor summer project but "rain stopped play" almost ! Then my wife insisted I removed the engine fron the big table in the conservatory when we had family round for Sunday lunch, I thought it made a nice centre piece but she would not have it  ;D

Rusty's Uncle

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2012, 02:03:54 PM »
Bits now back from the machine shop so some of the more interesting work can begin  ;D
The engineer spotted a small hairline crack on the base flange of the 500 crankcase so had to have that welded.

Ricky126

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Re: 'ardest job in the world !
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2012, 07:34:50 PM »
ever thought of sandblasting the blocks? we do blocks at my work and they are like brand new in less than half an hour

 

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