Author Topic: Bis power improvement  (Read 5431 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

tcosy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2009, 11:56:15 AM »
I have created a Spreadsheet for Eklipze3k to post to the clubcento, which has the BIS std spec, the cc700 std spec where known and a column for a tuned cc700 spec. It has some conditional formatting on it so that the red cells '?' turn green when the data is submitted, just so that it is easier to see where there is a data shortfall. How do i get it to him?

Eklipze3k

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 632
  • Karma: 2
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2009, 12:25:58 PM »
E-mail it to me:

frazer DOT verth AT fiat-scotland DOT com :)

tcosy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2009, 04:44:22 PM »
OOPS, file too big, try this

Eklipze3k

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 632
  • Karma: 2
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2009, 06:56:28 PM »
I'll pop that on, see if I can get the blanks filled in.  [-/

Does this page help at all btw?

http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=38192

MaLi

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: 1
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2009, 07:29:05 PM »
A bit of data for you on cc700:

compr. ratio: 9.0
Camshaft timing at 0.45mm valve control gap:
Inlet: open: 15 deg
        close: 58 deg

Exhaust:  open: 55deg
             close: 18deg

hydraulic lash adjusters

Ignition: electronic - Magneti Marelli Nanoplex MED 210A - cut off at 6000rpm

timing: 10+/-2 deg at 875rpm

idle 857+/-25 rpm
CO 1.0 +/-0.5%

Carb: FOS 30 S2HX (some Polish carb - probably made on Weber license)

Clutch 160mm/112mm diameter (outer/inner)

Gear ratios:
1: 39/12
2: 41/20
3: 42/32
4: 34/39

Final: 39/9

All gears are synchronised! But before you get excited - the gearbox swap is not straight forward.


I have more data but I have to work out how to print it to pdf first before I post it.

Hope that helps,

Mali

oh.. one more thing - there were 2 versions of CC700 as newer ones had a cat (I think), I've got data for both anyway

Pete126

  • Administrator
  • Super Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3333
  • Karma: 35
  • Location: West Yorkshire
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2009, 08:56:38 PM »
Good info MaLi, Thanks for helping out [-/
Pete.      il cavallo piccolo

tcosy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2009, 08:11:58 AM »
I have updated the spreadsheet to reflect the information from MaLi, and also added a new column for the Catalysed engine and highlighted in orange a new section for Valve Actuation. MaLi, what did you mean by Hydraulic Lash Adjustment - Hydraulic Valve Lifters?. Thanks

MaLi

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: 1
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2009, 06:25:37 PM »
pdf995 has messed up my printer setup so there will be no pdf...

Instead I took some screenshots:

http://img23.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=cc7008.jpg  <-- unfortunately this is in Polish

By hydraulic valve lash adjuster I mean e.g. this:

http://www.fag.com/content.fag.de/en/branches/automotive/engine_systems/product_range/mot3200/mot3210/mot3213/mot3213.jsp

tcosy - could you email me the excel sheet - I would be easier for me to fill in the missing bits of info. I'll give you mMy email on pm
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 06:41:10 PM by MaLi »

tcosy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2009, 09:20:37 PM »
OOps, Rookie error, i didn't raelise that PM was Personnel Message  and not Post Meridian
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 12:49:38 PM by tcosy »

MaLi

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: 1
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2009, 10:04:43 PM »
I filled in the info I had - still few bits missing but most of it is there. I anyone could remind me how to post a picture that would be great.

Cheers,

Mali

tcosy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2009, 08:29:35 PM »
MaLi, you need to save it as a small image under 72kb, the method i used was at 75%, hit print screen button, open Microsoft paint, select edit-paste. Save as a .png file and then use tha additional options at foot of page to add the image. Could you mail the excel back to me for my records thanks

MaLi

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: 1
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2009, 09:07:00 PM »
I've already emailed you back - must be my Polish email address being caught by spam filters or so. I will try to resend it from different email.
 
Picture should work now:


EDIT: email resend - let me know if you haven't got it
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 09:24:50 PM by MaLi »

tcosy

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Karma: 0
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2009, 08:42:18 AM »
Eklipze3k did you receive a response from clubcento, ref the Engine spec on the cc700? Mali has provided some very useful data but we still have a number of blanks, it would be great if we could get these filled in too.

In addition do we have a contact for cc700 tuning, so that i can see the potential for this engine and where the restrictions are. I watched the Video links, the tuned cc700 exhausts sounded rather meaty for a 2 pot engine.

I don't want to get too optimistic but it feels like the BIS engine has the potential for nearly 40bhp in road tune, running a cc700 head, electronic ignition, a performance exhaust, relocated (cold Air) performance Air Filter, the info I would still like is the Valve lift for a std and tuned cc700, the jetting of a tuned cc700 carb and power/torque curves if possible.

Stage 2, as above but with single point injection

Stage 3, as stage 1 but with modified Cam timing/lift and Multipoint Injection

Cheers All

fightingtorque

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • Karma: 0
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2009, 11:17:40 PM »
sorry guys, not been on for a while, I have the fuel injected BIS of which Stuey spoke.......

Before we get carried away, we are developing fuel injection for utility engines (Ride on mowers etc) and low cost motorcycles up to about 250cc.  The target is to deliver the emissions benefits of fuel injection but at about half the normal cost.  I wanted to run the system on a car just to see what would happen, and that's why I bought the bis.  I installed a system which had been prototyped on a 22hp ride on mower engine. 

I haven't really measured the performance, but I would say it did improve the low and mid range response, but not much change at the top end because the throttle bore I am using is quite small.  In any case, because the system was intended for a 22hp engine, I don't have much spare fuel delivery capability even if I tune it more.

Owing to an error on my part, a washer went through the engine, so I rebuilt it and at the same time skimmed the head to take the compression to about 9.3:1.  This I think has improved the torque further, although it has some detonation risk now. 

My engine management system has the ability to control the ignition timing, I haven't got round to setting it up but I think compression ratio increase plus mapped ignition will help all round.  I would suggest looking at the megasquirt system (our controller is not available for sale at the moment and is specific to our injector design (still prototype only).

I thought about porting the head a bit but again, didn't bother because I don't have more fuel delivery to match.

Some people have suggested that the transmission strenght could be an issue.  The engine is only 2 cylinder so although the torque is low, the peak torque within the cycle may be quite high.  In dyno testing single cylinder utility engines we have often destroyed drive couplings that were supposedly much stronger than the engine needed, but the thinking didn't account for it all coming from one big thump instead of 4 little ones.

I haven't done much on the BIS recently because I had to complete the annual restoration of my cinq sporting for the MOT, and now have some work to do on my Lotus, but I just got hold of some new wheels to put on the BIS so it might get out and about again - the steel wheels had corrosion/ leak issues.

that's it for now ........

Gav

bis13

  • Super Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2749
  • Karma: 39
Re: Bis power improvement
« Reply #44 on: May 09, 2009, 09:04:26 AM »
that makes for interesting reading i look forward to more posts .

 

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal