Author Topic: MGF engine?  (Read 638 times)

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Rabbit

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MGF engine?
« on: February 10, 2018, 08:03:19 PM »

Hi all,
And thanks for the warm welcome, I was thinking of using the back clip off the MGTF and mate it up to the back of my fiat 126 bis, but I know a lot of things make these cars illegal, is this a reality do you think or a dream?
Thanks for any help

Pete126

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Re: MGF engine?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2018, 11:50:34 PM »
Unfortunately I think its a dream, its not that simple anymore I personally have only seen one 126 with a 4 pot engine change in the UK but that's still registered as a 650cc so is not legal, search projects on the forum, there has been loads of people that come on the forum with big intentions ie. motorbike and car engines and most end up on ebay but will never be on the road again once they start cutting holes in the body shell. Sorry to rain on your parade but that's how it is, the 126 is becoming a classic and with prices tripling in the last few years your better off just doing a few tasteful mods like wheels-suspension-upgrade std engine IMO

http://club126uk.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9392.0 

Pete.      il cavallo piccolo

drcdb15

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Re: MGF engine?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2018, 11:16:10 PM »

Hi all,
And thanks for the warm welcome, I was thinking of using the back clip off the MGTF and mate it up to the back of my fiat 126 bis, but I know a lot of things make these cars illegal, is this a reality do you think or a dream?
Thanks for any help

Hi and welcome to the Forum. Sorry to add more dampness to your ambitions, but engine upgrades on the 126s have a LOOOOOOOOOOONG history of failure. There are several issues, but they all stem from the fact that the 126, like most products (not only cars) was designed as an integral assembly of parts - each bit really only works properly when combined with all the other bits.

If you change one part, you will most likely need to change the adjacent bit to suit. But then you'll need to change the bit next to that... and so on. Perhaps the largest single issue is the that 126 gearbox isn't all that strong, so adding a shedload of power to the engine then means you need to change the gearbox. And then the transmission. And then the brakes. And then the wheels. And to fit all this in you need to cut the bodywork.

Once you reach that point, you start to need SVA certification to keep legal - remember, if you're not legal and involved in an accident, no matter how minor, and the insurance company finds out the car has no MoT or no SVA or some changes have not been declared, then you'll be in trouble for having no insurance, and that is a whole different ball game.

So, serious upgrades and tuning are possible, and body chops can be ratified with SVA testing, but it is a MASSIVE undertaking, and will cost a fortune. This is why so many projects fall by the wayside - probably close on 100%.

There is only one project I know of (apart from the professional teams like Z Cars and Taz Racing - Google them if you want to see how it *can* be done - but remember these are generally race cars, not street legal) that is still going, and that's not in the UK - it's in Sydney, Australia, and started in July 2016.

The project is to install a twin-turbo Nissan Micra engine and box, and you can see the project thread on Facebook, search for FSM Nikki Project. The amount of work is phenomenal, the cost must be staggering but the quality of the work seems excellent from the photos posted.

The owner, Fat650, is on this Forum and described his project as a lifetime's dream (iirc) - but he is very much the exception that proves the rule. And there is still no guarantee that when finished his car will be accepted by the Australian authorities for road use - one of the issues he has faced is spacers on the wheels which apparently are not acceptable for road use under AUS laws. The UK too has its share of prima facie trivial rules and regulations, and it just needs one of these fouled to derail the entire project. If you want to build your dream, that's fine, but don't go into it without fully appreciating what you're getting yourself into, and without a budget of around £20-30,000.

Gadge

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Re: MGF engine?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 06:39:36 AM »
And let’s us not forget Dom Kellits Subaru powered BIS, a project dreamed up by a 15 year old kid who dispite being told numerous times the failiures he will inevertibly encounter he was still determined to go though with it..... he hasn’t updated his thread since 2015 leading me to think that failure has indeed (quietly) occurred.

It will always be a baffling thing to me why people want to put bigger engines in a 126. There are to many compromises to make when doing it - space in the back is tight, suitable trans-axles are small so often people look to the back seat area but this also throws up compromises with the engine sitting too far forward to have a realistic seating position without your knees in your ears and a too wide rear track that s been carried over from the donor car suspension not to mention the many types of fumes that will be in the car with you.

Personally you would  be better off spending the time making the MGF quicker which has to be said is an excellent car with an enormous club supporting it you can pretty much buy all you need and will ultimately handle and go faster than any bigger engined 126
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drcdb15

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Re: MGF engine?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2018, 09:45:50 AM »
Oh gosh, Dom - you're right, haven't heard from him for ages. Oh poor Dom, he got quite a rough ride (pardon the pun) from a number of folks on here, quite unfairly I thought. But I admired his seemingly indominatable spirit - no matter how much people rubbished his ideas he came bouncing back saying he was going to do it anyway...

Well he may not have finished his project, but I bet he learned a hell of a lot along the way, lots of engineering stuff and maybe a life lesson or three too, such as not biting off more than you can chew.  And for a young lad (young man by now) I think that's no bad thing at all. As I posted at the time, most of us if we're honest will admit to over ambitious dreams that never materialised, I've certainly had more than a few, and not just as a teenager - I was well into my fifties and still going overboard!  :$

So in that respect I'm not sure any of these projects is a 'failure'. We learn by our mistakes, and isn't that how life works ?  ;)

Gadge

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Re: MGF engine?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2018, 10:00:40 AM »
We certainly do :) ...... and from some helpful advice on here ;)

EDIT: I don’t think we were too harsh on Dom he was nicely told at first that a 2.0 turbo boxer engine was not a realistic option. The mistake from me anyway was forgetting that I was taking to a teenager and you know what teenagers are like when they’re told they can’t do something :D it was like talking to a brick wall. I need to learn more patience. I’m getting old you see ;)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 10:10:27 AM by Gadge »
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Fat650

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Re: MGF engine?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2018, 02:58:27 AM »

Hi all,
And thanks for the warm welcome, I was thinking of using the back clip off the MGTF and mate it up to the back of my fiat 126 bis, but I know a lot of things make these cars illegal, is this a reality do you think or a dream?
Thanks for any help

Hi and welcome to the Forum. Sorry to add more dampness to your ambitions, but engine upgrades on the 126s have a LOOOOOOOOOOONG history of failure. There are several issues, but they all stem from the fact that the 126, like most products (not only cars) was designed as an integral assembly of parts - each bit really only works properly when combined with all the other bits.

If you change one part, you will most likely need to change the adjacent bit to suit. But then you'll need to change the bit next to that... and so on. Perhaps the largest single issue is the that 126 gearbox isn't all that strong, so adding a shedload of power to the engine then means you need to change the gearbox. And then the transmission. And then the brakes. And then the wheels. And to fit all this in you need to cut the bodywork.

Once you reach that point, you start to need SVA certification to keep legal - remember, if you're not legal and involved in an accident, no matter how minor, and the insurance company finds out the car has no MoT or no SVA or some changes have not been declared, then you'll be in trouble for having no insurance, and that is a whole different ball game.

So, serious upgrades and tuning are possible, and body chops can be ratified with SVA testing, but it is a MASSIVE undertaking, and will cost a fortune. This is why so many projects fall by the wayside - probably close on 100%.

There is only one project I know of (apart from the professional teams like Z Cars and Taz Racing - Google them if you want to see how it *can* be done - but remember these are generally race cars, not street legal) that is still going, and that's not in the UK - it's in Sydney, Australia, and started in July 2016.

The project is to install a twin-turbo Nissan Micra engine and box, and you can see the project thread on Facebook, search for FSM Nikki Project. The amount of work is phenomenal, the cost must be staggering but the quality of the work seems excellent from the photos posted.

The owner, Fat650, is on this Forum and described his project as a lifetime's dream (iirc) - but he is very much the exception that proves the rule. And there is still no guarantee that when finished his car will be accepted by the Australian authorities for road use - one of the issues he has faced is spacers on the wheels which apparently are not acceptable for road use under AUS laws. The UK too has its share of prima facie trivial rules and regulations, and it just needs one of these fouled to derail the entire project. If you want to build your dream, that's fine, but don't go into it without fully appreciating what you're getting yourself into, and without a budget of around £20-30,000.

Hi Rabbit

From what i have been told, you unfortunately live in one of the worst places in the world if you want to modify your car...haha Having said that, i too have seen many people come to this forum and others with dreams that FAR outweigh their skills or budgets. I have to admit, i do enjoy being the exception to that rule  8) Thank you drcdb15
Perhaps i can clear up a few things for you while giving you a bit of helpful advice....

Firstly and most importantly my car has a 1.2L twin turbo micra engine in it yes... the gearbox however is a fully customised WRX unit that has been designed to spin the opposite way and this is what allows me to use it in this car. The standard gearbox is only good up to 100hp so it was worthless to me. My gearbox is the only other choice from standard. Apparently you guys have access to the rapid gearbox which i would have jumped at but isnt available in my neck of the woods. It would have been 10 times cheaper also from what i've been told.
Next, my car will be 100% road legal. I cant stress this enough. unfortunately i will have to re register it as a two seater as the gearbox occupies too much of the rear seat to re-attach the seat belts. Having said that, i probably could have mounted the whole driveline lower and got around this but i wanted my car to have negative camber as opposed to that positive look that i think is horrendous. Plus i have a full 3 inch exhaust and with limited space there's only so much you can do.
Then there is the spacers for the wheels issue. This isn't an issue as i have a set of fiat x1/9 wheels that fit perfectly (You cant run spacers on the road legally here either FYI) They are 13 inch x 5 i believe and i have 165 tyres on them. lets be honest, i'm never going to get traction but hey, that's not what i'm about  ;)
Finally i will get to the bit that isnt what you want to hear.... Skills and budget
I guess i am lucky i can do a lot if not most of the work myself. If i couldn't i wouldn't have even bothered to do this. I will also tell you that the budget estimate that drcdb15 put forward of 20,000 - 30,000 pounds is not enough. If you started with a car that was fresh out of the factory you might just get there on that budget. Unfortunately for me i have had to repair the front end due to rust, replace all the rubbers, re-do the interior, respray...etc etc

My advice to you would be this....

If you want to upgrade your motor, follow the road most traveled. there are parts and kits to put a fire motor into your car which would be a decent upgrade. Perhaps the UK boys can fill you in with the legalities of this. Putting a driveline into your car that isn't common will cost more than its worth and once you start down that path you either do it or you dont. There is no middle ground. This is why you hear so many people have bad stories about this type of thing.

As for me.... well, i think i stand alone when it comes to this. Most people will have their doubts about my project and sit by the sideline waiting for it to fail so they can once again jump up and hit me with the "I told you so"  It sort of makes me smile to think about it. Unfortunately for those guys, its not going to happen this time. You don't throw enough money at a car like this to feed a third world country and then walk away before its done.

Buckle up and enjoy the ride people!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

My ending statement is this: There will always be compromise when building a car. You cant have it all. Choose the things you want the most and go from there. Even with my build i have had to sacrifice many things. If you don't have the money then don't start something you know deep down you cant finish. Being different comes at a very high price but the disappointment from failing would be much worse. You would have wasted both your time and your money doing that.

At the same time, everything in me screams to push the envelope and be original. (refer back to the "this will send you broke bit" )


If you need more answers let me know. Enjoy!


stuey

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Re: MGF engine?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2018, 08:36:38 AM »
one resprayed and another arrives- double trouble BIS style!!