Club126UK

Fiat 126 Chat => Tuning & Customising 126 Models => Topic started by: Rusty's Uncle on April 03, 2010, 01:45:09 PM

Title: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on April 03, 2010, 01:45:09 PM
 :D OK every time I mention the Disc Brake Conversion for the 126 I get a load of messages which generally ask two main questions ,
What parts do I need ?
& How do you do the conversion ?
It is great to see the enthusiasm and interest but with my "one finger typing" I just do not have the time to type detailed answers to every message.
So I am going to try and cover it here.
I am talking here about the conversion that will suit any 126 or 500 that has 13" wheels and 126 stub axles.

PARTS REQUIRED

Disc Brake Callipers complete with Carriers , Pads , Fixtures & Fittings from or suitable for the Cinquecento , Seicento or early Punto range.
240mms Fiat discs to suit the above.
2 M10 x 1mms Banjo bolts to suit the calliper thread at the flexi hose inlet.
Disc brake adaptor plates.
6 x M8 plate to stub axle mounting nuts & bolts
8 x M10 spacing washers.
Brake Fluid.
TIME - For a reasonably competent DIY mechanic if the parts are all prepared and you know what you are doing then you could probably do this in about 2 hours or half a day with tea breaks.

 PROCEDURE

 Jack up car at front end , remove front wheels , remove brake drum , remove hub , disconnect flexi brake hose by removing banjo bolt from back of brake cylinder then undo the three nuts that secure the brake backing plate to the stub axle & remove brake assembly.
Fit disc brake adaptor plates , refit hub , fit 240mms disc using original bolts , bolt carrier (with or without complete calliper assembly) fitting the spacer washers between carrier & adaptor plates , assemble calliper if not already complete , connect flexi hose using M10 x 1mms banjo bolts & copper washers , bleed brakes , refit wheels & have a test drive .
 **-
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Jota69 on April 03, 2010, 08:56:24 PM
Thanks a lot, this information is very helpfull
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Da Londo on July 04, 2011, 12:02:29 PM
Does anyone know what the added weight would be with this conversion?
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on July 04, 2011, 09:03:47 PM
Nobody has done the maths as far as I know but I can weigh a caliper & disc if you have a drum set up to weigh & compare. All I can say is that I recently drove a standard 126 that had new brake cylinders fitted . Compared to my car with the discs fitted you had to work so much harder on the brakes.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Da Londo on July 05, 2011, 11:41:37 AM
No, I haven't got any around, but this morning I was thinking that any added weight on the front axle and especially at the point of the wheels will give more stability thus making it positive weight.
I'm looking for an aircooled one for the moment to use for a little project, wanting to increase engine power a bit, nothing drastic, cam, 1mm of the head, (maybe putting a Dellorto on it as I have one lying around but don't know what it will give with the jets) flywheel and then do some extensive weight reduction while keeping it road legal, so anything one does not need will go out.

Greets,
Jim aka Da Londo

Edit 1: Taken another look @ the carbs lying around, it's Solex so I guess it's a no go on carbs.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Darrell on July 05, 2011, 02:34:44 PM
SOlex was often used so don't chuck it out, they worth a bit too  ;)
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on July 05, 2011, 10:45:36 PM
Hi Rusty,
There are quite a few Cinquecentos being broken up at the moment. Being a complete novice on this subject matter. Do I simply purchase both the front brake system which will include F&F, the discs, brake pads and calipers? It will probably have most of the "parts required" you itemised with the exception of the stub axles and brake fluid.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: ronb1967 on July 05, 2011, 11:52:00 PM
  Do you have a blue print for the disc brake adaptor plate or can the plate be purchased ??? Thanks
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on July 06, 2011, 01:02:33 PM
Amateb8 , yes get the complete callipers along with the mounting bolts.
.
.
.
ps I never mentioned stub axles on the list , you have already got them on your car, it's those big bits that join the wheels onto the suspension  ;D ;D

As for the adaptor plates , I have not mentioned them on the forum for some time as it stopped the flow of time wasting messages I was getting and general questions from people who could not be bothered to use the search facility on the forum. Also supplies were limited , at least at the price I sold them to forum members and I may get a quote to get some more made but like everything I guess the price will go up. I have had a steady stream of enquirey messages from guys that have researched the forum and in fact I posted the last spare set to a guy in Romania yesterday. I have got one set that I am keeping for myself if I go to 13" wheels and I have another set up on my top shelf. The "top shelf" set are being kept for a guy who said he wanted them but was strapped for cash at the time so I said I would put them aside for 12 months. Well I reckon we are coming up to about 359 days  :$
You know who you are you naughty boy  :o but I am a man of my word.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on July 06, 2011, 09:54:38 PM
Please correct me if I am wrong. The only missing part are the adaptor plates. Could you kindly give me an idea how much you would charge for the these plates please?
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Eklipze3k on July 07, 2011, 07:28:53 PM
As an aside to this thread, I am trying (with limited success) to source front calipers from a Punto GT or similar to put on my Seicento. As such, the calipers will of course become available at that time so if anyone wants them and happens to spot a set of Punto GT calipers, let me know :)
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on July 08, 2011, 06:40:40 AM
Hey Klipy , I may have half a solution for you. In my early days of experimenting with possible disc brake set ups for the 126 I bought a range of Fiat calipers to try out. One of them is a complete sporty Punto to run with the vented discs. I was going to put it on eBay but if you are interested I will dig it out of my garage. Also got two pairs of new original Panda callipers if anyone is running that set up & wants spares.
Amateb8 I am not sure who is more bonkers , you or me  :$
We have met twice already this year at the Auto Italia events , both times I had a spare set of plates in my car and you never said a thing. Now they are sold out you are asking me how much they are  :o Anyway having met you I know that you are a jolly fine fellow even if you are still in disgrace for not taking your 126 to Stanford hall  :(
There may yet be a spare set if the guy does not claim the ones on my shelf so I will put you at the top of the list.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Eklipze3k on July 08, 2011, 09:46:38 AM
Just one? Hmm, the chances of finding another singleton are slim so let me get back to you on that one :)
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on July 08, 2011, 11:32:37 AM
That is no problem I will just be keeping it in "stock" for the time being. I just dug it out and it is an original Fiat part no. 0046758649 on the box just in case you come across another one. I have a single complete Cinque calliper also and will be looking for a twin so if you turn any up I am happy to do a swop.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on July 08, 2011, 10:09:53 PM
Hi Rusty,
It has always been my plan to convert to disc brakes but oftentimes it is down to timing. When funding is available, I tend to look into the brake conversion in earnest, up until the funding gets used unexpectedly for something else. As a consequence, the planned conversion gets frustratingly deferred once again. For the time being, I have the resources now but I can't really purchase the used Cinquecento brake discs, calipers, mounting bolts et al, without the adaptor plates. Well, I can buy the Cinquecento brake parts but have absolutely no place to store them. The situation is made worst due to the fact that I have accumulated lots of spare parts for my two 126s (and other cars), particularly for my blue Bis which is due for part restoration in August. My other half is not very pleased with the limited storage space we have being used up by spare parts. If your last adaptor plates do not find a home, consider it sold!
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Eklipze3k on July 15, 2011, 12:48:34 PM
Well I have sourced a pair of GT calipers for my Sei, so come end of this month my current front setup will be available and will include the full caliper and carrier set as well as nearly new discs and pads - been fitted since April and will have only covered around 500 miles so will be in very good condition. I'll be looking for around £60 for the lot collected, P&P if necessary will be at cost as this will of course be a rather heavy package!
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Eklipze3k on July 15, 2011, 03:02:52 PM
And within minutes, 1973/126 has first refusal on the brakes :D  :o
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: 1973/126 on July 15, 2011, 05:34:38 PM
 Thanks my man :thumbup
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Pete126 on July 15, 2011, 06:04:47 PM
If you have them changed over before retro rides I can take them down with me :thumbup
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Eklipze3k on July 15, 2011, 07:10:27 PM
If you have them changed over before retro rides I can take them down with me :thumbup

Cheers Pete, that'd be excellent :)
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: 1973/126 on July 15, 2011, 10:40:12 PM
 Oohhh that would be great. Fingers crossed, and I owe you guys a beer. :P
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: ronb1967 on July 21, 2011, 11:13:40 PM

Can someone tell me what the recommended/ ideal thickness/ grade of steel of the calliper adaptor plate is please, ive just made a template up out of 6mm ply and this just rubs on the inner bearing race seal, and thickness of any spacers required please (Cincacento disc & calliper )
thank you   
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on July 24, 2011, 09:08:32 AM
I went for 5mms steel plate as that was the same thickness as the ones that were available in Europe plus the laser cutters told me that 5mms was the thickest plate they could get an accurate cut with.
For spacers between carrier and adaptor plates I used either 2 new stainless washers per bolt or a single thick washer , thickness about 3 to 3.2mms
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: ronb1967 on July 24, 2011, 02:42:00 PM
thank you for your input
much appreciated  :D
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Eklipze3k on August 02, 2011, 06:58:09 AM
Oohhh that would be great. Fingers crossed, and I owe you guys a beer. :P

Just FYI, I've just had to pay a massive vets bill for my bearded dragon so upgrading my brakes has had to go on the back burner for now, therefore no chance they'll be off the vehicle in time for RR. As soon as I'm able to get the new ones and get them all swapped over I'll let you know. Cheers.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on February 17, 2012, 08:26:37 PM
Fiat 500 126 disk brake brackets make your own conversion for less than £100

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/fiat-500-126-disk-brake-brakets-make-your-own-conversion-less-than-100-/160737984166?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item256cbafea6
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: jokke on February 19, 2012, 07:54:22 PM
cool. will these also fit BIS? :)
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on February 19, 2012, 08:00:10 PM
Interestingly, the seller already sold a couple of the brackets. I was hoping that someone from the forum who drives a Bis, bought and tested a pair of these, would be able to comment.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on February 19, 2012, 09:47:00 PM
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" as the very old saying goes  :)
So I am flattered that the design I came up with has now been copied as I knew it might well have been and to be honest I say good luck to whoever is getting more of these made . Although I sold the sets from my final design for 13" wheels at a lower price it was mostly through the forum at what I thought was a "club" price but I think that £35 is still reasonable. Shame I do not get any royalties but my original design is still on the computer at the laser cutters just in case  ;) 
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: nrg19uk on February 19, 2012, 10:55:38 PM
The cheek of some people  :o send them a message tell them the parts patented lol
 
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Tate on March 01, 2012, 05:57:14 PM
Would anybody have the dimensios for that kind of adapter? I would be intrested of making my own design... I have CAD skills so can make it pretty easily.. Or if someone has needs for some kind of 3D-models or drawings for custom parts.. I can help. Just PM me.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Tate on March 05, 2012, 03:45:16 PM
Rusty's Uncle gave me the dimensions and I made a copy of a copy :D

(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss196/tatex1/Brake%20disc%20adapter/Brakediscadapter.jpg)
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Allan on March 05, 2012, 06:27:25 PM
Hello again Uncle Rusty,
Are these suitable for a 12 inch steel road wheel. I had some templates made up out of perspex and was using the old 227 discs trimmed down and tipo calipers and brackets slightly modified by cutting out the inner part of the mounting bracket. I was just getting there when I sold car.
I used perspex because it is eay to work with and you can see through it to cut shape and drill in the right places.
Regards
Allan
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on March 09, 2012, 09:01:15 PM
At last! I am a step closer to getting disc brakes for my Bis. Just bought two sets of brackets on ebay for £35 and just ordered two sets of Cinquecento complete callipers (one set for my red one as well). The next step would be to purchase Cinquecento discs and pads. I will also order the banjo bolts and other bits and pieces soon. Should the banjo bolts come with the callipers?
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on March 20, 2012, 09:55:25 PM
I have been told that now that I am converting to disc brakes, I might as well modify my braking system to servo assisted brakes. Is that possible?
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Tate on March 22, 2012, 09:26:33 AM
I have been told that now that I am converting to disc brakes, I might as well modify my braking system to servo assisted brakes. Is that possible?

Yes it is possible but is there any sense of doing that and what are you going to gain with that? Fiat 126 is pretty light car so as I think there is no need for servo. As you may know it only amplifies the force from brake pedal to master cylinder.

If you would want servo assisted brakes you would need the master cylider and brake servo from some another vehicle which might be quite easy to find (?). Servo works with vacuum so you need to have an additional vacuum pump (common in diesel engine cars) or somehow get enought vacuum from your own engine (long pipe from rear to front).

Maybe someone in here has already made this so they might know more about the details.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on April 05, 2012, 09:48:04 AM
I now have all the parts I need for the conversion. I thought I might as well replace the wheel bearings. Does anyone know the part number? There are wheel bearing kits as well.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: popik81 on April 05, 2012, 12:31:13 PM
part nr should be stamped on the bearing??
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on April 05, 2012, 04:24:20 PM
Checked the Subscribers Section. All the part numbers are there - perfect! But the front bearing part numbers advertised in e.g. Ebay do not coincide with the Fiat part numbers.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: linden on June 25, 2012, 07:49:41 PM
:D OK every time I mention the Disc Brake Conversion for the 126 I get a load of messages which generally ask two main questions ,
What parts do I need ?
& How do you do the conversion ?
It is great to see the enthusiasm and interest but with my "one finger typing" I just do not have the time to type detailed answers to every message.
So I am going to try and cover it here.
I am talking here about the conversion that will suit any 126 or 500 that has 13" wheels and 126 stub axles.

PARTS REQUIRED

Disc Brake Callipers complete with Carriers , Pads , Fixtures & Fittings from or suitable for the Cinquecento , Seicento or early Punto range.
240mms Fiat discs to suit the above.
2 M10 x 1mms Banjo bolts to suit the calliper thread at the flexi hose inlet.
Disc brake adaptor plates.
6 x M8 plate to stub axle mounting nuts & bolts
8 x M10 spacing washers.
Brake Fluid.
TIME - For a reasonably competent DIY mechanic if the parts are all prepared and you know what you are doing then you could probably do this in about 2 hours or half a day with tea breaks.

 PROCEDURE

 Jack up car at front end , remove front wheels , remove brake drum , remove hub , disconnect flexi brake hose by removing banjo bolt from back of brake cylinder then undo the three nuts that secure the brake backing plate to the stub axle & remove brake assembly.
Fit disc brake adaptor plates , refit hub , fit 240mms disc using original bolts , bolt carrier (with or without complete calliper assembly) fitting the spacer washers between carrier & adaptor plates , assemble calliper if not already complete , connect flexi hose using M10 x 1mms banjo bolts & copper washers , bleed brakes , refit wheels & have a test drive .
 **-

Hi , i've been searching through the threads on disc conversions but can't find any set ups for 12" wheels. can your method be adapted to suit them.Cheers Dennis  ( my drum brakes don't give you any confidence )
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Hazey-n-Marc on June 25, 2012, 08:20:05 PM
My drums are fine, never had me worried, never had brake fade (a constant problem in most of my old cars). I'm sure the discs are better, but just sorting your drums might be a revelation.
Marc
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on September 16, 2012, 08:05:07 AM
I am finally getting my 126 brakes upgraded to discs. The mechanic says, if I understand him correctly, he needs new banjo bolts to enable him to install the brake pipes to the Cinquecento calipers. Can he use the 126 banjo bolts. The Cinquecento calipers I bought also included the banjo bolts. Can't he use this?

Hopefully, the tripods are next.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: bis13 on September 16, 2012, 09:31:04 AM
yes use the bolts that came with the calipers, tell the mechanic that the car may need to be "tipped" forward slightly to get all the air out of the system. by this i mean either roll the car up on some blocks about the height of a kerb so that the rear wheels are raised and the car leans forward.   
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on September 16, 2012, 06:33:27 PM
According to the mechanic, the Cinquecento banjo bolts will not fit the brake pipes. I can infer, from this, presume, the 126 brake pipes are not compatible with the Cinquecento banjo bolts. He says he needs to buy new banjo bolts. Is it two M10 x 1mms Banjo bolts to suit the calliper thread at the flexi hose inlet as per Rusty's suggested required parts?
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: bis13 on September 16, 2012, 07:53:58 PM
oh sorry i thought you had the banjo bolts and pipes already its just a straight swap if you buy all the bits at once i got mine from a scrap yard and got it all in one lot. in this case then you need to get the cinq/punto pipes.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on March 05, 2013, 10:49:31 PM
We are having a problem with the disc conversion. The banjo bolt on one end is different to the flexi-hose bolt. I've used Cinquecento calipers and discs. Is there a banjo bolt that has the same thread with the flexi-hose?
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Topolino on March 06, 2013, 03:14:37 PM
Very interesting topic. Can we download sone templates/blue prints of the plates? And/or a manual? That would be nice  :P
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: thepuddlejumper on March 06, 2013, 11:29:00 PM
I think I used VW polo for the front, should be on a post somewhere.

Ralph
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: popik81 on March 06, 2013, 11:31:30 PM
will make a photo  8)
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: thepuddlejumper on March 06, 2013, 11:44:03 PM
This is my set up.

http://club126uk.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3975.msg27104#msg27104

Ralph
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Topolino on March 07, 2013, 01:47:17 PM
Right. So can you post the size etc? Or something what we can print out and glue on piece of metal so we can cut it out. Would be great. Thx.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: thepuddlejumper on March 07, 2013, 09:28:24 PM
Go to this site there is lots of stuff.


http://www.126fan.pl/www/ham_tarczowe.htm

Ralph
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Topolino on March 08, 2013, 03:43:11 PM
Hi Marc,

Thx. I just looked at it but see only one yellow page with drawing and measures. Is that right or must there be more to be found there? I ask you this because down the page it says something like ''Strona glawa 404..' etc.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: thepuddlejumper on March 08, 2013, 06:45:41 PM
Hi, go the the web address, look down the left column to find all the areas for anything you want to know about tuning.  There are also instructions to use vw conversion to 800cc

http://www.126fan.pl

Ralph
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on March 08, 2013, 08:14:00 PM
I would guess that Tate took my basic drawing that I sent him and put it on a computer system to get some made. I have my original drawing somewhere which shows the main co-ordinates , hole sizes and spacing but when I had the final run of plates produced I did an over-sketch of the final "curvey" design, which Tate has showed, then discussed it with the laser cutters, they made them & the rest is history. I can only supply an "old school" drawing so not sure if Tate can post a CAD version.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on March 08, 2013, 09:48:22 PM
Is there a kit available i.e from my earlier query?
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: thepuddlejumper on March 09, 2013, 12:38:44 AM
See below kit

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-126-late-500-Disc-brake-conversion-kit-/130861149557?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e77eead75

and plates not as curvey as Rusty's second batch

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-126-126-BIS-500-FRONT-DISC-BRAKE-CONVERSION-/281070641031?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item41711d9f87

Ralph
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on March 09, 2013, 01:19:06 PM
Hi Ralph,
I've got the disc conversion bracket and Cinquecento discs and calipers already assembled. The only thing is the banjo bolt of the Cinquecento is different to that of the flexi-pipe hose.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Pete126 on March 09, 2013, 01:30:33 PM
The info is on the first post, in the parts list :D

http://club126uk.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4724.0
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: thepuddlejumper on March 10, 2013, 12:16:52 AM
I have Rusty's banjo set up ready to go on my 500, cinq calipers, but I used old VW Polo hoses for the front on my 126 and Gamine this is another alternative.  I had to change the end of the brake pipe to suit the vw flexi. You could take your calipers to your local parts store and try out. See attached photo

http://club126uk.co.uk/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3975.0;attach=1174;image


Ralph
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: mini093 on March 26, 2013, 07:46:09 PM
Try "HELL" they do a conversion set for the cinq to bis in braided!
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on March 28, 2013, 01:41:43 PM
Hi Ralph,
Can you actually change the end of the brake pipe?
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on March 28, 2013, 05:57:58 PM
 :headscratch:
Tell me I am dreaming  :o
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: thepuddlejumper on March 29, 2013, 06:24:51 PM
Hi Amateb8 when you mix and match brake components you may need alternative nut ends, to match what you are installing.  Therefore you may need to change the nut ends, pipe flares.  The nuts come in different thread sizes to suit the different car manufacturers brake components.  You need a brake flaring tool and suitable nuts  The tool allows you to flare the end of the copper brake pipe to suit the required nut end.  Hope this helps.

Ralph
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: fixit on March 30, 2013, 12:37:45 AM

you may find this interesting for brake parts ect.

not connected with mentioned


http://www.frost.co.uk/automotive-brakes-tools.html?limit=all

regards fixit
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on April 01, 2013, 02:03:10 PM
Angelo , if you or your mechanic really are unable to find the right banjo bolts I have some spare new stainless steel ones along with new copper washers. I also have some new steel and stainless steel banjo bolts to fit the standard brake slave cylinders.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Amateb8 on April 01, 2013, 08:56:15 PM
Pm'd.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: poxxxy on October 07, 2014, 10:59:20 PM
Don't suppose the dimensions are available for me? :D. I'm trying to get back into auto cad and want to have a play as its been 4 years or more!
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on October 09, 2014, 02:06:56 AM
I can let you have the dimensions but I just landed in New Zealand about 3 hours ago and am having to refresh myself with a couple of pint of Speight's Gold in the hotel bar :-)
You can have the info when I get back in about 5 weeks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: andyzeetec on October 09, 2014, 10:51:51 AM
Very nice too.  
 :beer:
I can let you have the dimensions but I just landed in New Zealand about 3 hours ago and am having to refresh myself with a couple of pint of Speight's Gold in the hotel  ???bar :-)
You can have the info when I get back in about 5 weeks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: poxxxy on October 09, 2014, 12:24:31 PM
New Zealand!? Wow :). Sounds fun!
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Allan on May 08, 2015, 09:26:36 AM
When are you back in NZ Rusty?
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on September 04, 2016, 07:42:15 AM
Revived for Nathen  :)

:D OK every time I mention the Disc Brake Conversion for the 126 I get a load of messages which generally ask two main questions ,
What parts do I need ?
& How do you do the conversion ?
It is great to see the enthusiasm and interest but with my "one finger typing" I just do not have the time to type detailed answers to every message.
So I am going to try and cover it here.
I am talking here about the conversion that will suit any 126 or 500 that has 13" wheels and 126 stub axles.

PARTS REQUIRED

Disc Brake Callipers complete with Carriers , Pads , Fixtures & Fittings from or suitable for the Cinquecento , Seicento or early Punto range.
240mms Fiat discs to suit the above.
2 M10 x 1mms Banjo bolts to suit the calliper thread at the flexi hose inlet.
Disc brake adaptor plates.
6 x M8 plate to stub axle mounting nuts & bolts
8 x M10 spacing washers.
Brake Fluid.
TIME - For a reasonably competent DIY mechanic if the parts are all prepared and you know what you are doing then you could probably do this in about 2 hours or half a day with tea breaks.

 PROCEDURE

 Jack up car at front end , remove front wheels , remove brake drum , remove hub , disconnect flexi brake hose by removing banjo bolt from back of brake cylinder then undo the three nuts that secure the brake backing plate to the stub axle & remove brake assembly.
Fit disc brake adaptor plates , refit hub , fit 240mms disc using original bolts , bolt carrier (with or without complete calliper assembly) fitting the spacer washers between carrier & adaptor plates , assemble calliper if not already complete , connect flexi hose using M10 x 1mms banjo bolts & copper washers , bleed brakes , refit wheels & have a test drive .
 **-

Hi , i've been searching through the threads on disc conversions but can't find any set ups for 12" wheels. can your method be adapted to suit them.Cheers Dennis  ( my drum brakes don't give you any confidence )
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: NathanMcM on September 04, 2016, 03:42:19 PM
Your a bloody life saver. I'll have a read when I finish work and don't forget to keep me them plates  :D
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: DannyPancho on November 23, 2016, 07:59:56 PM
im desparate to find some calipers that will fit 12" wheels, would the 500 kits that have 12" calipers fit the 126 lot? i have some early steelies which i have, arguably, restored, and i intend on using them  ;D
I even went as far s asking a guy on ebay whose selling the 13" kit but i feel he couldnt find any as he never got back to me...
thanks in advance! :D
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on May 11, 2017, 08:42:42 PM
Seems like I have to revive this again to save me some one finger typing  :)

Revived for Nathen  :)

:D OK every time I mention the Disc Brake Conversion for the 126 I get a load of messages which generally ask two main questions ,
What parts do I need ?
& How do you do the conversion ?
It is great to see the enthusiasm and interest but with my "one finger typing" I just do not have the time to type detailed answers to every message.
So I am going to try and cover it here.
I am talking here about the conversion that will suit any 126 or 500 that has 13" wheels and 126 stub axles.

PARTS REQUIRED

Disc Brake Callipers complete with Carriers , Pads , Fixtures & Fittings from or suitable for the Cinquecento , Seicento or early Punto range.
240mms Fiat discs to suit the above.
2 M10 x 1mms Banjo bolts to suit the calliper thread at the flexi hose inlet.
Disc brake adaptor plates.
6 x M8 plate to stub axle mounting nuts & bolts
8 x M10 spacing washers.
Brake Fluid.
TIME - For a reasonably competent DIY mechanic if the parts are all prepared and you know what you are doing then you could probably do this in about 2 hours or half a day with tea breaks.

 PROCEDURE

 Jack up car at front end , remove front wheels , remove brake drum , remove hub , disconnect flexi brake hose by removing banjo bolt from back of brake cylinder then undo the three nuts that secure the brake backing plate to the stub axle & remove brake assembly.
Fit disc brake adaptor plates , refit hub , fit 240mms disc using original bolts , bolt carrier (with or without complete calliper assembly) fitting the spacer washers between carrier & adaptor plates , assemble calliper if not already complete , connect flexi hose using M10 x 1mms banjo bolts & copper washers , bleed brakes , refit wheels & have a test drive .
 **-

Hi , i've been searching through the threads on disc conversions but can't find any set ups for 12" wheels. can your method be adapted to suit them.Cheers Dennis  ( my drum brakes don't give you any confidence )
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: mintex on July 17, 2017, 09:38:26 PM
ok, its taken me a bit to get my finger out but after a run out with a group of classics at the weekend and having brake problems its time to do the conversion.

I have the plates (cheers Rusty's Uncle :good: ) but are these the brake calipers i need (see attachment) that ive found for sale?

Cheers
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Gadge on July 17, 2017, 10:06:59 PM
There not the ones I used - that's not to say they won't fit - but the common caliper used from a seicento/punto which I think is what rustys' plates are for
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: mintex on July 17, 2017, 10:16:00 PM
ah ok cheers, the add says they are from a mk1 punto but that's if the add is correct lol. i did find some but that said they were from a 1.2 16v, not sure if they are different?
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: mintex on July 17, 2017, 10:18:10 PM
ive just found these, do they look like the right ones mate? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/fiat-punto-1-2-8v-driver-osf-brake-caliper-795211-/253024266424?epid=1409708508&hash=item3ae96be8b8:g:Kf0AAOSwXYtY1A1U
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on July 18, 2017, 06:27:58 AM
ive just found these, do they look like the right ones mate? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/fiat-punto-1-2-8v-driver-osf-brake-caliper-795211-/253024266424?epid=1409708508&hash=item3ae96be8b8:g:Kf0AAOSwXYtY1A1U
Yes you have got the right ones there along with the all important carrier and M10 mounting bolts  :)
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Gadge on July 18, 2017, 06:28:46 AM
That's it Dave, their the ones just make sure they come with the carriers :thumbup
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: mintex on July 18, 2017, 11:32:23 AM
Bugger, someone must have been watching this thread as its gone now, i will have to search for more when i get home after work today  :(
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: mintex on July 18, 2017, 05:46:54 PM
Sorted, i've just found some more that look a cleaner set, plus they were £5 cheaper  :yahoo:
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: candanoglu on October 22, 2017, 06:25:33 PM
Hi friends
I cahnge my brake system with cinqucento for rint,alfaromeo 145 for rear.
So I think so brake pressure is not enough.when. I press the first time to brake is not stop well.but second time more stronger.
I checked my brake system and is not have any defect and air in brake fuild.
Must I change my brake master cylinder?
If I change which one I use?
Thanks..
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Gadge on October 22, 2017, 06:41:40 PM
You need a much bigger master cylinder to compensate for the extra space in the caliper cambers. I have front calipers on mine (but not on rear) and I have a very spongy pedal so I fitted an Uno one which is physically the same outside as the 126 version but has a 1mm bigger bore which helps a lot but as you have rear calipers too then you may need an even bigger one so perhaps one from a punto or bravo?
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on October 22, 2017, 07:43:20 PM
I had a discussion about the relative merits of brake cylinders/calipers a few years back with a guy who spent his life working on cars and much of it teaching motor vehicle technology. He pointed out that the piston in a disc brake caliper although a larger diameter than a brake cylinder will only move a couple of thousands of an inch to actuate the brake and may well require less brake fluid displacement than standard drums which pull back the brake cylinder Pistons by springs as opposed to a disc calliper where the piston virtually just rocks against the seal. If you have a spongey pedal or have to pump the brakes then either the master cylinder is faulty or there is still air in the system. There is no reason why you should not get a firm pedal with the standard master cylinder. In fact if you increase the bore on the master cylinder basic hydraulics will tell you that you can increase the flow of brake fluid that should not be necessary  but decrease the braking pressure.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: drcdb15 on October 23, 2017, 12:24:07 PM
Indeed, it would seem that in going from all-drums to all-discs, you should actually need, if anything, a SMALLER master cylinder rather than a larger one:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/brake_calipers.htm

The apparent improvement observed when changing to a larger master cylinder may be just coincidental, in that by disturbing the whole system and re-filling/re-bleeding, the problem with the original set-up (most likely air still trapped somewhere) has been cured.

Normally you wouldn't disturb the original master cylinder unless you planned to change it. But did anyone ever actually remove it fully, as if to replace, but then re-fit the SAME master cylinder? According to this theory, that should give the same improved performance as is attributed to the replacement larger cylinder.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Gadge on October 23, 2017, 02:55:15 PM
I just figured that that the increased volume in the calipers would require compensating for with a larger volume at the other end but it could be just coincidence like you say. Works beautifully now though.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: DannyPancho on March 15, 2018, 08:43:47 PM
Hi all, dont suppose anyone whose done this conversion has had problems when trying to bleed the new calipers? On the OSF there is brake flyid coming through but only whent he bleed nipple is fully removed, it wont go through bleed nipple, and the NSF has nothing coming through the nipple or when its fully removed...

Any thoughts??

Cheers
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: drcdb15 on March 15, 2018, 10:27:52 PM
Sounds like the "holes" that your bleed nipples screw into aren't. They're blocked. Or not fully drilled through. Or drilled through off-centre (this would explain why the OSF doesn't let fluid through when the nipple is screwed in - the nipple seating in its hole must be sealing off the underlying hole).

I bet you don't want to hear this, but I suspect you need to remove the calipers and properly inspect the nipple holes to make sure they're clear, free of swarf and solid grot etc, and maybe run a small drill through the oilway hole to make sure it's clear all the way through.

This is assuming of course that you don't have some massive leak elsewhere that the fluid escapes through as a path of less resistance than that offered by the bleed nipple path.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Gadge on March 16, 2018, 07:15:08 AM
Yes I second that, they shouldn’t cause any drama when bleeding. It should be pretty straight forward like any other car. Daft question but are all the pipes and hoses ok?
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on March 16, 2018, 08:52:56 AM
One point to note. If you are using cinquecento type calipers the near side calliper on the cinquecento fits to the off side on the 126 etc. Otherwise the bleed nipples are on the bottom of the callipers.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: pietschokkenbroek on March 16, 2018, 09:23:06 AM
In the process of rebuilding my front brakes I found both brake hoses blocked with dirt....

(And of course the bleeding nipple should be at the top of the caliper to get all the air out...)

Good luck!

Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: DannyPancho on March 16, 2018, 01:36:06 PM
Hi guys thanks for your feedback,

My calipers are from a seicento and how they are mounted at the moment, the bleed nipple is at the top end of the caliper (higher up) but as a result is pointing downwards, if i switched the calipers round, the bleed nipples would be at the lowest end of the setup but the nipples would be angled upwards. Would i be right to switch them round?
Also, when i do this i will check the holes for blockage - there appears to be no leaks elsewhere and the brakes did work when the drum setup was on so i believe there should be no issues with the lines

Thanks again guys
Dan
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: drcdb15 on March 18, 2018, 12:41:11 AM
One way to find the blockage point probably best done with 2 people is this: disconnect the hoses at the CAR end, and block each exposed open pipe end with a small bung. In turn, while the other person presses the brake pedal, remove each bung while holding a jar in place to catch the fluid. The fluid should pour out at high rate if the line is clear. Assuming your jar was clean and dry, pour the collected fluid back into the master reservoir, then connect up each of the hoses - JUST the hose, leaving the wheel end of the hose open. Then bung the open end of each hose and repeat the test. At the same time, of course, you can visually inspect each hose joint/coupling for any obvious dirt or swarf.

Once the hoses all check out OK, you can then fit a caliper to each hose - just left hanging loose for now, to make catching the fluid easier. And with no bleed nipple in place. Repeating the test wil confirm the internal oilways within the caliper as being OK.

If this is now OK, then still with the caliper loose for easy handling, fit the bleed niples - again, check visually for any dirt or swarf. If you get any problem now, you know it is with a faulty bleed nipple, or some alignment problem with the bleed nipple seating into the caliper body. Don't forget, errors in manufacturing CAN happen, and in castings like calipers holes can sometimes be drilled incorrectly. It may be, if that's the case, that the most cost-effective remedy is a replacement caliper.

In my experience, obsessive cleanliness when working on brake lines saves a lot of head-scratching over possible blockages.
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: DannyPancho on March 19, 2018, 02:13:31 PM
Ive managed it now, i swapped the calipers over and one side started bleeding lovely, the other sides nipple had  some odd blockage in it... i thought it was grease or what-have-you, then i touched it... solid... turns out it was a part of the bleed nipple cover which had been squashed into the nipple head!  :P i had noticed perviously that there was a hole in the cap but didnt think the rest was inside the bleeding bleeding nipple!

Anyway, so now they are bled, just need to test, pedal doesnt seem to go hard though when compressing with car off, is that expected of this conversion?

Thanks for all your help!!
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: drcdb15 on March 19, 2018, 03:27:16 PM
Another win for the combined efforts of Team Club126  :wave
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: mintex on July 21, 2018, 08:48:20 PM
Hi all, ive finally got around to doing my disc conversion and all has gone well except i dont have the bolts for the   fiat cinquecento brake hangers, does anyone happen to know what size/thread they are please?

Cheers
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: Rusty's Uncle on July 22, 2018, 07:30:47 AM
Hi all, ive finally got around to doing my disc conversion and all has gone well except i dont have the bolts for the   fiat cinquecento brake hangers, does anyone happen to know what size/thread they are please?

Cheers

Bolts are M10 fine or M10 x 1.25  :)
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: mintex on July 22, 2018, 03:57:23 PM
cheers mate  :good:
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: michaelodonnell500 on July 23, 2018, 10:13:59 AM
remember to specify 12.9 grade bolts.
The caliper bolts are in used in sheer.
The original bolts would have been 10.9 grade or 12.9 grade.

Michael
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: nunohflima on August 09, 2018, 11:24:00 AM
Hi Guys!
I am from Portugal and I have a 126 of 74 "and wanted to convert from 4x190 to 4x98. Is it possible to use the braking of the fiat 127 from the first series? If not what parts of what car can I use to do the conversion? (I want to apply discs on the front).
Title: Re: Front Disc Brake Conversion
Post by: welshdresser on September 05, 2018, 12:54:32 PM
Hi,
I'm almost halfway through my polski fiat disc brake conversion and now realise that the wheels are going to rub against the brake calipers :-(
Where can I get some spacers to move the wheel out a bit? I think it would only need to move 10 or 15 mm at most.
I've seen some things on ebay, but they look horrendously expensive just for some discs with holes in!
Cheers,
Matt