Author Topic: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!  (Read 8121 times)

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sahin261

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Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« on: May 31, 2015, 07:50:58 PM »
Hello all, I would like to say that: We are succesful about electronic ignition on my friend's 126Bis. I will tomorrow put some pictures here!  :D :)

Gadge

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2015, 07:56:56 PM »
WOW  :D great work! You have succeeded where others have failed lol how did you do it?
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Henmiester

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2015, 09:10:47 PM »
Very interested to know how. More details please. Love the bis by the way. Simon.

mintex

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2015, 10:36:56 PM »
Yes please do tell, i'm very interested to  :good:
Dave

sahin261

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2015, 03:37:41 AM »
In fact, in Ä°stanbul/Turkey one man was doing electornic ignition for 650 (air cooled) and 700Bis. He did for my friend's car.
tomorrow I'm going to take some pictures from his car :D and I'm hoping that it will be great source for who wants electronic ingintion on bis' :)

Da Londo

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2015, 10:13:58 AM »
Very good news.

sahin261

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2015, 11:39:03 PM »
Here some pictures from electronic igniton. Even I learned that this system is using by around 50 bis'. Also he is doing nanoflex* ignitoin. (*cancelling distribitor and putting sensor on crank shaft)









Gadge

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2015, 05:31:07 AM »
Excellent work!  :D it actually looks quite simple to install ? Which kit is it?
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mintex

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2015, 07:52:16 AM »
Thats good :good: i would love to do this to ours. as gadge said what kit is that please.
Dave

Da Londo

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2015, 03:29:55 PM »
I think it is accuspark but it has to be modified.

sahin261

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2015, 05:40:15 PM »
Yes accuspark. Electronic ignition is making more quite and makes Bis stronger. My bis has not electronic ignition engine sound is more than this.
first starts are easy, working fast. Working quite. I will later put videos  ;)

sahin261

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2015, 05:44:15 PM »
I'm preparing videos. You can also listen engine voice with electrionic ignition. Really not a lot noisy.  :)

drcdb15

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2015, 11:59:05 PM »
Even I learned that this system is using by around 50 bis'. Also he is doing nanoflex* ignitoin. (*cancelling distribitor and putting sensor on crank shaft)


That is very interesting. But what improvement will it make to the accuracy of the timing? Changing from a mechanical contact breaker which can bounce, wear and corrode to a contactless optical or electronic/magnetic trigger obviously makes a very substantial improvement without major modification.

However, going from an electronic system on the distributor to an electronic system on the crankshaft seems likely to be a fairly major modification - so what will the benefit be?

Well, I must assume that the electronic systems will be identical in performance - why would they not be? They are both electronic, they both use the same components, wires and so on. So that part of the system should have an identical performance.

So where can a crankshaft-based system improve on a distributor-based system? It seems to me the only areas where there are "losses" on the distributor system can be (1) on the gear meshing between the crankshaft (or camshaft) and the distributor shaft, and (2) torque or twisting losses in the distributor shaft.

Taking the second of these, since the distributor shaft is a rod of steel, it seems to me extremely likely that any twisting of it under the driving stresses of the engine will, although theoretically possible, be so small as to be undetectable. So I cannot see any advantage in eliminating this (theoretical) loss.

With regard to the crankshaft or camshaft gear drive, again these are highly accurately machined and hardened steel parts, running in oil, and under very little strain from the 'effort' of turning the distributor shaft. How much of an engine's power is taken by the work required to drive the distributor shaft
? Again, I suspect this is immeasurably small. So the losses in this gear drive will come in effect only from any 'slack' in the meshing of the drive gear and the driven gear.

However, with the engine running normally, any such slack is taken up as the gears initially accelerate up to running speed. As the engine continues to run under normal conditions, there will be no slack as the driving gear will constantly be pushing on the driven gear, making any variation in the constancy of the rotation immeasurably small.

I would predict, therefore, that in practice a direct crankshaft system will not be detectably different in performance from a distributor based system. In other words, a large amount of engineering re-design, effort and expense for absolutely no improvement at all in engine performance.

On highly tuned and ultra-high precision racing engines there might be some slight advantage (for example, the overall rotational mass will be reduced since the distributor shaft will not be present), but on a high tolerance mass produced unit like the Fiat 126 engine ? I very much doubt it. Have I missed something?

sahin261

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2015, 12:37:51 AM »
Here a video, 126Bis with simple electronic ingition. (the same car in that pictures)
https://youtu.be/wKA1TBSCwmA

https://youtu.be/v2IhzaJ1pbQ

This Bis has nanoflex ignition. No distiribitor. Sensor on crankshaft (as you can see at 00:38 no distribitor :) )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KeTDdgRj6I

sahin261

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Re: Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2015, 12:43:12 AM »
Even I learned that this system is using by around 50 bis'. Also he is doing nanoflex* ignitoin. (*cancelling distribitor and putting sensor on crank shaft)


That is very interesting. But what improvement will it make to the accuracy of the timing? Changing from a mechanical contact breaker which can bounce, wear and corrode to a contactless optical or electronic/magnetic trigger obviously makes a very substantial improvement without major modification.

However, going from an electronic system on the distributor to an electronic system on the crankshaft seems likely to be a fairly major modification - so what will the benefit be?

Well, I must assume that the electronic systems will be identical in performance - why would they not be? They are both electronic, they both use the same components, wires and so on. So that part of the system should have an identical performance.

So where can a crankshaft-based system improve on a distributor-based system? It seems to me the only areas where there are "losses" on the distributor system can be (1) on the gear meshing between the crankshaft (or camshaft) and the distributor shaft, and (2) torque or twisting losses in the distributor shaft.

Taking the second of these, since the distributor shaft is a rod of steel, it seems to me extremely likely that any twisting of it under the driving stresses of the engine will, although theoretically possible, be so small as to be undetectable. So I cannot see any advantage in eliminating this (theoretical) loss.

With regard to the crankshaft or camshaft gear drive, again these are highly accurately machined and hardened steel parts, running in oil, and under very little strain from the 'effort' of turning the distributor shaft. How much of an engine's power is taken by the work required to drive the distributor shaft
? Again, I suspect this is immeasurably small. So the losses in this gear drive will come in effect only from any 'slack' in the meshing of the drive gear and the driven gear.

However, with the engine running normally, any such slack is taken up as the gears initially accelerate up to running speed. As the engine continues to run under normal conditions, there will be no slack as the driving gear will constantly be pushing on the driven gear, making any variation in the constancy of the rotation immeasurably small.

I would predict, therefore, that in practice a direct crankshaft system will not be detectably different in performance from a distributor based system. In other words, a large amount of engineering re-design, effort and expense for absolutely no improvement at all in engine performance.

On highly tuned and ultra-high precision racing engines there might be some slight advantage (for example, the overall rotational mass will be reduced since the distributor shaft will not be present), but on a high tolerance mass produced unit like the Fiat 126 engine ? I very much doubt it. Have I missed something?

Yes! you are so right. With distributor or without... hm. In fact it doesnt matter so much on performance. Of course it does matter. But we cant understand. So small improves with nanoflex. normal electronic ignitoin must be on Bis. Because, maximum fault comes from this: http://image5.sahibinden.com/photos/49/26/59/108492659l7p.jpg

But I think: Nanoflex ignition, cancelling distribitor is better opinion. ignition timing advance is becoming automatic with sensors. :) I hope I could explain.