Club126UK

Fiat 126 Chat => Tuning & Customising 126 Models => Topic started by: mintex on March 23, 2015, 11:01:03 PM

Title: rev counter
Post by: mintex on March 23, 2015, 11:01:03 PM
HI all
I know the little 126 in standard trim is no speed machine but i'd like to fit a rev counter, has anyone fitted one and can recommend one? i guess a motor bike one might be easier with only needing a 2 cylinder one ?

Cheers  :)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: thepuddlejumper on March 24, 2015, 08:53:48 AM
I have fitted a Harley rev counter in the past worked great and an easy install, you need one of the older electronic ones.
Ralph
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on March 24, 2015, 01:37:48 PM
ok thanks, i will take a look on ebay and see if i can find some thing sutable  :)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Mics126 on March 24, 2015, 08:45:26 PM
they are hard to find the 2 cylender revcounters but i found one on ebay for one of my 126s. it does help with fuel consumption i found.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on March 24, 2015, 10:03:30 PM
yes, i see what you mean  :D, been looking today but not found one yet, i best keep looking.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Pete126 on March 24, 2015, 10:16:15 PM
If your handy with a soldering iron these work well :D

http://www.velleman.co.uk/contents/en-uk/p208.html
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on March 25, 2015, 07:19:24 PM
Do you have to solder that one together pete?

I was thinking about chancing this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180571784416?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Pete126 on March 25, 2015, 07:30:13 PM

I was thinking about chancing this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180571784416?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

That looks to be a better idea :D with the kits you have to assemble it yourself..
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on March 25, 2015, 07:55:17 PM
Ive sent him a message to see if he thinks it will work with the fiat,  if he says yes or not sure then i will chance buying one and see  :)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: gammakeith on March 26, 2015, 07:08:27 AM
Don't think it will work with the BIS.  There is no distributor as such so, as I understand it, the coil fires both cylinders at the same time ie its acting like a high revving single cylinder.  I would be interested myself if it does work though  ;)

Keith
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on March 26, 2015, 10:51:00 AM
Well i've taken the plunge and bought one so will let you know if it does of not, ...... fingers crossed  :)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Gadge on March 26, 2015, 10:57:31 AM
Many years ago I did try fitting a Rev counter to a BIS. It does work but it reads twice as fast because as Keith just pointed out the coil fires twice. So for instance it was ticking over at 750 rpm but showing 1500rpm and when I was on the move It was like I was driving a civic type R doing 8000 rpm down a motorway  ;D

Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on March 26, 2015, 01:25:42 PM
Ah cheers guys, yep your right, ive just been and tested the coil.  Bugger, looks like ive wasted my money on that rev counter then,  Any one want to buy it for there air cooled one that has a dizzy?

I do have this hour meter/rev counter that ive just tired and that works.
I bought it for a 2 stroke bike i had that never had one and i wanted to know the revs it was using. You can change the settings for how many cylinders.
As the coil fires twice and (ones a wasted spark) i set it to a single cylinder engine and it seams to work.

Says its ticking over at 750rpm   :)

(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/suzuki998/Fiat%20126/20150326_121943_zps4cveaa3s.jpg)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on March 26, 2015, 09:30:46 PM
I forgot to say that this ones battery operated , says the battery will last 3 years, and the pick up wire simply wraps around the plug lead.

Shame its not run on 12v really as it would be ideal

As i say i bought it awhile ago for a bike but its one like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Engine-Tach-Tachometer-Hour-Meter-Gauge-Inductive-for-Racing-Motorcycle-/181296233782?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a3618fd36
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Pete126 on March 26, 2015, 11:03:16 PM
Many years ago I did try fitting a Rev counter to a BIS. It does work but it reads twice as fast because as Keith just pointed out the coil fires twice. So for instance it was ticking over at 750 rpm but showing 1500rpm and when I was on the move It was like I was driving a civic type R doing 8000 rpm down a motorway  ;D



If that's the case if you buy a universal tachometer and set it to 4 cyl it should read correct :$
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on March 26, 2015, 11:12:53 PM
Many years ago I did try fitting a Rev counter to a BIS. It does work but it reads twice as fast because as Keith just pointed out the coil fires twice. So for instance it was ticking over at 750 rpm but showing 1500rpm and when I was on the move It was like I was driving a civic type R doing 8000 rpm down a motorway  ;D



If that's the case if you buy a universal tachometer and set it to 4 cyl it should read correct :$

This one i bought (it should arrive tomorrow) says it will run on a 4 cylinder so i can test that theory   :thumbup
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on April 12, 2015, 07:18:30 PM
i did have a go with that rev counter but i cant get it to read right as yet sadly  :(
With the coil firing both cylinders at the same time would one of a single cylinder bike do the trick?
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 08, 2015, 12:43:30 PM
Any one got any more advice as to fitting a rev counter to a bis. Its a bit or a pain with it having the wasted spark coil were both plugs fire at the same time.

I have one of these just to check the revs when setting the timing and things, it was of an old 2 stroke single cylinder motorbike and it does work ok but it has no light and its battery operated but the battery, i fancy something a bit more permanent 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LCD-Hour-Meter-Tachometer-Motorcycle-Boat-Gauge-ATV-Engine-Counter-Resettable-UK-/390721988794?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5af8d868ba
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Mics126 on May 09, 2015, 05:37:00 PM
the fact that you have a wasted sprk ign. coil is irrelevant to any normal rev counter because they use the points to give a signal to the rev counter.

the only thing you do need to try to do is get a two cylinder four stroke revcounter which is hard to get but possible, i got mine from ebay fairly cheap for what it is.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 09, 2015, 05:46:40 PM
ah ok cheers
i do have one for a 2 cylinder 4 stroke engine but i got false reading from it when i tried it? It has 2 selectable switches on the back so maybe i had the set wrong? i will try it again and let you know how i get on.

How have you wired yours in please and is yours a bis  :)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Mics126 on May 09, 2015, 06:14:44 PM
no mine is a 650 aircooled but its a 1987 one so it has the wasted spark ign. coil. literally you get the feed/signal from the wire between the negative side of the coil to the points on the dizzy (take it from which ever end is easiet for you).
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 09, 2015, 07:09:47 PM
Ive just tried it again and im beginning to think this rev counter i have does not work with a 2 cylinder?

This is my battery one and the gauge i was trying to fit and as you can see (they were both fluctuating a bit) the gauge is reading nearly double  :cry:

(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/suzuki998/Fiat%20126/20150509_184500_zpsyp6kpi0r.jpg)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 10, 2015, 12:10:17 AM
Ive just found this on blitzracing for the bis.

Quote
Its not that easy to find an aftermarket rev counter for a 2 cylinder engine , so out with a soldering iron to modify one. The unit I used had a switch on the rear for 4, 6, or 8 cylinders.  Each switch setting was fed from a resistor, that simply changed in direct value to the number of cylinders. The 4 cylinder value was twice that of the 8 cylinder ( and the 6 being 1.5 times  ) , so I used a couple of resistors to make up  twice the value of the 4 cylinder to make it work for 2. The value needs to be kept accurate to keep the calibration of the gauge . I have also fitted a motor cycle rev counter (MZ Scorpion 600cc single) that simply had an adjustment on the rear that can be tweeked to work on the twin cylinder engine. It should be possible to use rev counter from Twin cylinder 4 strokes or single cylinder 2 strokes for 1 spark per revolution.  
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Mics126 on May 10, 2015, 02:33:05 PM
that would work too. i will look at mine tommorow to see what make it is.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 10, 2015, 07:51:15 PM
Ok, thanks mate  :good:
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Franck14 on May 12, 2015, 12:59:42 PM
I've fitted a BMW R75/7 rev counter to mine. Cheap at bikejumbles, works fine, and nice to look at. Needs a bit of work though and needs a box from another counter (Jaeger, Véglia, Smith, what so ever in 80 mm) to fit in
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 12, 2015, 10:52:29 PM
Ah thanks Franck, that's another option for me to look at  :good:
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Mics126 on May 13, 2015, 10:12:06 PM
i couldn't find the make of my rev counter on it. its probably on the box which is hard to find.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 13, 2015, 11:28:30 PM
Ah ok bud, thanks for looking  :good:
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 21, 2015, 10:17:46 PM
Its a bit expensive really but i wonder if it would work? Be nice if it would as i like them better than digital ones.

http://www.ecas2cvparts.co.uk/tachometer-counter-52mm-diam-silver-bezel-white-face-engine-8000rpm-p-1964.html
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Bambino126 on May 22, 2015, 07:47:14 AM
Yes I think that would work, as it says it's for a 2CV.
On the back you can see the selector switch to change from 2 all the way up to 8 cylinders.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 22, 2015, 12:35:28 PM
Its a little more than i wanted to spend but i do like the look of it. I will think about it over the week end but i might just take the plunge and by one.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Bambino126 on May 22, 2015, 06:32:36 PM
Let us know how you get on - I might just copy you!
Where are you going to mount it?
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 22, 2015, 07:49:43 PM
Not sure, would probably buy a pod for it like this one to mount it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131472578178?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: drcdb15 on May 23, 2015, 08:03:28 PM
Its a little more than i wanted to spend but i do like the look of it. I will think about it over the week end but i might just take the plunge and by one.

I would - checking to find other sources of 2CV tachos, I found this: http://www.northallerton-engineering-services.co.uk/speedshop.htm

£108  :o

I plan to copy you both!
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: drcdb15 on May 23, 2015, 08:26:31 PM
And this one: http://www.burton2cvparts.com/toerenteller-burton-zwartchrome-p-5452.html?language=en

149 euros.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 23, 2015, 09:41:05 PM
how much!!!!  :o
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Mics126 on May 23, 2015, 11:30:22 PM
my rev counter looks the same as that 2cv one but mine is black but my one only cost me just over £20.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 23, 2015, 11:38:48 PM
my rev counter looks the same as that 2cv one but mine is black but my one only cost me just over £20.

Ive looked on ebay but sadly cant find any for a 2 cylinder, does the seller you got yours from still sell them?  
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Mics126 on May 24, 2015, 08:53:28 PM
my seller was ebay, I did look for you on ebay myself when i told you that i couldnot find the make of my revcounter.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 24, 2015, 09:42:20 PM
ah ok thanks bud  :thumbup
Think i will pay the money and order one of the above on tuesday, as long as it works i will be happy enough  :)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 28, 2015, 06:57:20 PM
Ok, it arrived and ive fitted it today..... and it works  :yahoo:

Ive not been on a road test as yet but im happy with the result. Ive done a little vid to show you  :)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYzqT7dfewM[/youtube]
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Mics126 on May 29, 2015, 08:12:08 PM
looks good 8)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: drcdb15 on May 29, 2015, 09:26:26 PM
Ok, it arrived and ive fitted it today..... and it works  :yahoo:


My searching suggested this might be a Faze gauge - is it? And what price did they charge for shipping? Their web site wanted to charge me silly money.

Cheers
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on May 29, 2015, 09:44:51 PM
looks good 8)

Cheers, im happy now lol  :D

My searching suggested this might be a Faze gauge - is it? And what price did they charge for shipping? Their web site wanted to charge me silly money.
Cheers

On the box it came in it says its a "Au technni, El auto gauge".
I paid £45.90 for it with the postage but when it arrived on the invoice they had refunded £2.40 so in the end it came to £43.50 :)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: drcdb15 on May 29, 2015, 10:05:27 PM
Cheers, Mintex.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: sahin261 on October 13, 2015, 11:31:17 PM
Hello, I installed revcounter on my bis succesfully. I took rev counter from Fiat 125. I converted 4cyl tachometer for 2cyl. I even did a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VgMqtGOi7w

here link of video but all informations are in Turkish. I can translate if you interest :)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: BHBASS on October 29, 2015, 10:27:11 PM
Nice job, did not realise it was this problematic to source a rev counter for the little car.

Maybe this will help someone: type 'obrotomierz Lumel' into the search engine of your choice. There is a few models, see pics. I have got the round one, there are also two flat shaped ones (left side of the second picture), a dial one and a LED one. One in good nick should be no more than £40, but it is possible to get them for less. The flat ones must come with their 'foot', they are dashboard mounted with screws.

The round one is adjustable between 2 and 4 cylinders, not sure about the other two, but I would imagine they will most likely be as well. Practical reasons, the parts were not just available everywhere off the shelf back then, so the manufacturers' approach was a bit more universal.

Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: drcdb15 on October 30, 2015, 06:05:28 PM
In my travels trawling for a suitable tacho I've come across these few items, all labelled as being usable with two-cylinder engines. I take as my benchmark the model available for the 2CV, at £39:

http://www.ecas2cvparts.co.uk/tachometer-counter-52mm-diam-silver-bezel-white-face-engine-8000rpm-p-1964.html

So against that price these look interesting:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151702163952?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400956680305?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

and this little item will show rpm AND hours of operation:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131577797096?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I recall many years ago noticing that a farm tractor had a "speedo" showing hours. When I queried this, the farmer told me you couldn't judge service intervals on a farm tractor by miles because the mileage it covered was tiny. So instead the servicing was judged by elapsed operational hours - makes sense...

And it also might make sense for something like a classic car like the baby Fiats. I typically only do 1000 miles or so each year in my classics, so on that basis one oil change would last nearly 10 years!!  On the other hand, do I really need to change the oil every year when the engine has not run under load for more than a few hours? How to judge? This item could be the answer. And at only £15 you can easily get one for each car you run.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Joe Webb on April 14, 2016, 11:31:14 PM
Hey, I know I'm bringing up an old thread, but would a tacho for a single cylinder 2 stroke work? given that there is a spark for every other revolution in each cylinder?

I'm not sure I understand how they work though so I could be asking a dumb question. Also it looks like the 2 stroke battery operated tacho seems to work?  ???
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on April 16, 2016, 10:04:12 PM
A single cylinder 2 stroke would work i think as you say both plugs fire at the same time.

One if the battery operated tachos do work as i tried one for a bit but i found it was always jumping about a lot with the readings.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Joe Webb on April 16, 2016, 10:05:42 PM
this looks like a good alternative then

http://www.banggood.com/Universal-Mechanica-13000RPM-Tachometer-Gauge-Motorcycle-p-929615.html?currency=GBP&createTmp=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_content=jude&utm_campaign=motor-uk

Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on April 16, 2016, 10:15:15 PM
yes possibly, i did look at one like that myself.

just check with the seller that it will run on a single cylinder 2 stroke as most twin cylinder 2 strokes fire each plug independant and not the same time like the fiat  :)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on April 16, 2016, 10:17:05 PM
The seller i asked said it was automatic at selecting and i was not convinced so never took the plunge. 
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Joe Webb on April 16, 2016, 10:46:20 PM
yeah good point

I'll do some digging
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Joe Webb on April 17, 2016, 12:02:08 AM
I read that a lot of bikes use wasted spark ignitions anyway so a 4 stroke 2 cylinder or 1 cylinder should work as well

I also found some info on modifying tachos by changing their resistors

That way you could put a 4 cylinder tacho in, and halve the resistance of that circuit to double the rpm reading.
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on April 17, 2016, 12:44:52 AM
Most 4 stroke bikes use 2 coils, even most 2 cylinder bikes have 2 coils (ive had bikes since i was 16) so keep this in mind before buying.


As for using  resistors i did read about this but never tried it out so sadly can't help you if it would work or not mate  :(


Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Joe Webb on April 17, 2016, 02:06:00 AM
I might give modifying one a go, find a cheap one and see how easy it is :P
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Xylaquin on April 17, 2016, 08:21:43 AM
I use my ears as the rev counter. ;)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: drcdb15 on April 17, 2016, 02:12:24 PM
this looks like a good alternative then

http://www.banggood.com/Universal-Mechanica-13000RPM-Tachometer-Gauge-Motorcycle-p-929615.html?currency=GBP&createTmp=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_content=jude&utm_campaign=motor-uk

Although the price is attractive, remember you usually get what you pay for, and since most reasonable quality tachos are priced from bout £40-100, don't be surprised if a nine quid item looks (and performs!) like it came out of a Christmas cracker.

On a more serious technical note, to have any use other than being purely cosmetic, you want the tacho to match the rev range of your engine. I don't know what that is for the baby Fiats, but I imagine it's around 0-4000 rpm, with most of its life being spent around the 2000rpm mark.

That means that on a 0-13K rev counter the needle will rarely get above 14% of full scale. In other words, the needle will spend most of its time bumping around the bottom end, where anyway readings tend to have larger errors than mid-scale, and any information it might offer will be pretty much useless.

For the Fiat you really want a 0-5000 (-ish) range, not something designed for an ultra-high revving motorcycle.

Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on April 17, 2016, 02:22:16 PM

On a more serious technical note, to have any use other than being purely cosmetic, you want the tacho to match the rev range of your engine. I don't know what that is for the baby Fiats, but I imagine it's around 0-4000 rpm, with most of its life being spent around the 2000rpm mark.

For the Fiat you really want a 0-5000 (-ish) range, not something designed for an ultra-high revving motorcycle.

Yep, your spot on, Mine revs to 5000rpm with the most torque at about 2000rpm,not sure if that's the same for the air cooled or not  :)   
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: dombooth on April 17, 2016, 03:48:16 PM
I seem to remember someone on here using one for a 2CV
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on April 17, 2016, 04:27:35 PM
Yes that was me, i bought this one from a 2cv part place  :)

http://www.ecas2cvparts.co.uk/tachometer-counter-52mm-diam-silver-bezel-white-face-engine-8000rpm-p-1964.html
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Joe Webb on April 17, 2016, 05:24:30 PM
Yeah i realised that the rev range was way off, wasn't going to get it.

I have an idea of wiring in a variable resistor so i can calibrate a 4 cylinder with one of those tiny tachs but this is all theoretical at this point

That way i could potentially put the mechanism over a custom gauge face.
Thinking about maybe replacing the tyre pressure graphic in the dash with the tacho

Again, a lot of hard work and is just an idea :P
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Joe Webb on April 23, 2016, 12:06:25 AM
Well I have a cheap tacho that looks pretty good actually and I have ordered some variable resistors to test my theory.

My next issue will be finding where to run the tach wire as my ELX has no distributor

if anyone knows where to run it that would be a great help

Cheers!

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1674/25978559614_affd215f47.jpg)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: mintex on April 23, 2016, 08:42:16 PM
I can check on mine tomorrow but i'm sure i connected the rev counter to the - on the coil as mine has no dizzy either.

does yours have a coil like this one?


(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p161/suzuki998/Fiat%20126/coil_zpsjvgn9tbb.jpg)
 
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Joe Webb on April 23, 2016, 10:54:18 PM
not sure, mine looks like the HT leads are coming from some kind of CDI

I guess it's the same thing though right?

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1487/26509134612_fc6f60ae2c.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1527/26602176515_f064dca7a2.jpg)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Joe Webb on April 25, 2016, 10:14:41 PM
Well I got excited and hacked up my rev counter... before I have tested it.  :$

It should theoretically work, but I've probably made a mistake somewhere!

anyway what I've done so far was very simple. I cut some slots in the face surround so I could rotate it 90 degrees, but that was self explanatory. It allows me to mount it to the vertical face of the instrument cluster surround which is the only place I have space for it. It meant I had to dremel a new slot for the cylinder selection switch.

I figured out that the 8 cylinder setting has a resistance of around 400 kΩ and the 4 cylinder setting has around 200kΩ, so I bought a 100kΩ potentiometer and wired it in place of the 400kΩ resistor.

I chose a variable resistor to allow for any slight error in my extrapolation. Should be able to use it to calibrate the tach for my engine and get a more accurate reading.

Simple!

hopefully it will work

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1666/26041070133_2d068534bd.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1713/26371500590_6780ed2bc9.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1534/26579211221_c885c06d8b.jpg)
Title: Re: rev counter
Post by: Joe Webb on April 27, 2016, 03:53:39 PM
yep... Knew I'd screw up somewhere.

got the resistances the wrong way round so I need an 800kΩ resistor for 2 cylinders.

That's quite cool though as it means you could calibrate it for basically any number of cylinders with the potentiometer as it will have a range of 0-1MΩ

with a twist of the dial you could take it from your 126 and put it in your V12 850 CSi, or your fiat coupé I5, or your 2 stroke saab ;)