Author Topic: gear box seal replacement but found an issue  (Read 3845 times)

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fixit

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gear box seal replacement but found an issue
« on: October 14, 2017, 12:04:59 AM »
Hi everyone long time since on but hoping someone can help.
 
decided to clean off the storage dust on the gearbox with grease lightening before taking covers off to replace the seals,
have removed the end where the gear lever rod goes through, and the speedo drive, gear box in neutral.
 found when turning drive shaft, a spacer with 2 cross head screw is loose wiggling in this back section lower shaft.
 the car still fondly named freddie has only travelled 49000miles perhaps might of just managed a mile in my owner ship of cough 12 to 15 years.
could this be a recall??  ;D teehee
joking aside, am trying to locate the tightening torques of these cross headed bolts :$
I have the cd but the torque is not jumping out
now I think the name of the doo dah that wiggles with the 2 screws is the pinion shaft bearing retainer.
any help much appreciated  ;D
Fix it

Edit to add photo
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 07:03:03 PM by fixit »

ChrisRLewis

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Re: gear box seal replacement but found an issue
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2017, 09:52:24 AM »
Any chance you can post a photo of the part and the screws?

Rusty's Uncle

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Re: gear box seal replacement but found an issue
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2017, 05:50:53 PM »
I know exactly the part you mean. That retaining plate is secured by two cross head countersunk screws. You will not find a torque rating for those in any manual. They are like the two on the timing chain end main bearing. If you over tighten them the angle on the countersink can split the cast metal. You will have to use your own judgement and maybe some suitable thread lock  :)

fixit

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Re: gear box seal replacement but found an issue
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2017, 11:12:57 PM »
thanks Rusty's uncle great identifying skills, thanks for the cast splitting x suggesting thread lock info,    ;D, yes, will be very careful tightening.

thanks Chris  have not yet removed the components in front of the screws, its the bottom shaft opposite end to clutch, shaft has a nut with a cotter pin through ,  will add photos later.

thought would undo the drive shaft inner boots,  before tackling the screws
shock horror in the inner drive shaft
there are broken lumps of metal,   :o,
the good news is,
 it is the metal of inside of inner boot, that slides over the drive shaft, that is the culprit ,
although broken not mangled,
 the bad news, is having to now take bell housing off  ( part that normally covers clutch) to get into the area to sweep out any possible metal bits.

 the drive shaft is scored.  will hold fast on new parts till see total calamity of this gear box. 

 have spotted socket marks on bolts through drive shaft hole, this might be a good sign for those 6 bolts to come undone.

will update
edit to add photos
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 07:06:14 PM by fixit »

fixit

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Re: gear box seal replacement but found an issue
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2017, 02:09:24 AM »
an update
started by indoing the 4 nuts then prising the part that holds the inner boot to the gear box, it has the slotted inner nut that sets the crown pinion adjustment, in the green manual it says to undo this slotted nut before prising, alas had a brain moment and totally forgot, the part came out unharmed.  did consider trying to remove the front studs to this part to save this prising.

undid the 6 bolts holding the bell housing to the gear section, found had to use a chrome 11/16 chrome socket ( the 17mm seems to have walked) on the middle upper and lower bolts because the impact sockets were too well made to fit. the release bearing clutch lever spring was also disconnected, to enable movement to get to middle bolt
to remove bell housing tapped carefully where the bolts go through to attach to engine, while hands was holding the box, this worked and full view of the crown confirmed, no metal mangled.
the next bolts to undo are the crown wheel bolts, with hands using a cloth to hold,
they were tight even with a long bar and socket, one bolt gave trouble, so used an impact driver, to shock, then returned to the long bar.

its at this point the crown departs its mounting and you realise the diff bearing hub is firmly attached to the body of the sun x planet wheels / cogs,
this next part we had to tap a screw driver into the gap to part the two, a puller would of been handy but could not be used because of the drive shafts being in the way.

once in two halves, the cog with the drive shaft came out with 2 square parts over the driveshaft pin there was an washer on one side
a retainer/ clip of the centre pin was manipulated, the pin pushed out side of casing and the cogs were retrieved and labelled so not to mix up.
we found all the parts that were lined up on the drive shaft had to be removed by the wheel end, hence a knock off and remove of a spring clip of the part that attaches to the wheel hub.
we stopped here on this area..
*************************************************************
we started on the disassembly of the cogs to get to those loose screws, opposite end of gearbox to the clutch
(must locate a new cotter pin)
 perhaps was old age but this cotter pin fell to bits, it was holding the castellation nut holding the other parts on.
we found had to lock the gears by selecting 2 gears, it says how in green manual.
removing the springs that push ball bearings onto the selector shafts (they are behind a plate near the gear box mounting). found the top spring one had broken.

does anyone know where could locate  a detent selector spring??

during removal, of the selector rods 2 pea sized pieces of metal appeared in the diff area,  forget what they are called, but we were able to put back in place through a hole, where the  big inspection plate covers
once the cogs had slid off, we unscrewed the loose screws and inspected the cast
all was well, the screws angle looked like had been centre punched,(something normally do to ensure a drill bit doesn't move)  and had pop marks, placed the wiggling part back on, screwed back in with a cross screw drive just to see if could tighten, and low and behold can not undo to put the lock tight on.
 :o
must be tight enough.. ;D
have reassembled, while the method was still fresh in mind..
**************************************************
to conclude the taking to bits part
the broken metal parts of the inner boot oil slide on the drive shaft, have not damaged this internal diff or the crown and pinion. but there is evidence this has happened before on the other side, in this gear box life.


the diff bearings look like have small indents in the chrome, but could be reused, its a lot of work to get to this stage so will consider new bearings, this will mean setting up the crown and pinion settings, something never done before.
 :o with a delay to source parts

a detent selector spring has broken judging by the lack of shine in the break, happened a long time ago, haven't been able to locate one, if could point in right direction would be greatful
 also need a cotter pin.


Hopefully will get some pictures up soon once find out how to reduce photo sizes.

regards F ;D

edit to add photos
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 07:08:38 PM by fixit »

Rusty's Uncle

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Re: gear box seal replacement but found an issue
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2017, 01:13:44 PM »
Read through this and had to concentrate and visualise in my head what you were saying but it all made sense. I stripped seven gearboxes and built back three and a half so have lots of spare bits including a detent spring. You did not mention the three ball bearings that fit under the springs that need to be free and undamaged. Those two little plungers that dropped into the diff area are vital and need to be assembled as per the manual. By cotter pin I am assuming that you mean a simple split pin to secure the nut.

fixit

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Re: gear box seal replacement but found an issue
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2017, 07:23:49 PM »
Hi Rusty's Uncle
gosh 7 gear boxes,
pleased the description made some sense,  ;D
will recheck the plungers,
the detent ball bearings were held in with rubber seals, they are free but not checked for damage, will do that next

could I buy a detent spring from you?
have you any opinion on the drivers side diff bearing the dark parts are not soiling, this condition led me to think the same that had happened of passenger side had happened before on drivers side.

will pop of to recheck items mentioned
regards
F


Rusty's Uncle

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Re: gear box seal replacement but found an issue
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2017, 08:28:35 PM »
There are no seals on the detent balls & springs unless someone has overdone the gasket sealant to create that impression.
Not sure what you mean about the bearings can you be more specific or show pics.
As for detent springs, you must realise that they were forged by Italian virgins in the fires of a volcano using rare elements from the outer planets and are the rarest of the rare !
But I guess that you can have one if you send me an address  ;D

fixit

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Re: gear box seal replacement but found an issue
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2017, 04:41:20 PM »
Hi Rusty's Uncle
pm sent, thank you ;D
 loved your description of the rare metals  ;D
its sealer that was in the holes, selector balls seem ok,

had a closer look at the opposite side diff bearing to the metal findings see pictures,
 ( opened paint program , to resize pixels to 340, seems to of dropped picture amount of mb to kb if any pictures are too small let me know)

the bearing runs smooth tried cleaning off the black but seems its very well attached, the race is pitted,

got some more cleaning of components, painting of inner boot retaining rings

Thanks for reading so far
regards
F

« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 07:58:02 PM by fixit »

fixit

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Re: gear box seal replacement but found an issue
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2017, 12:11:13 AM »
Today cleaned & painted parts,
then
in attempt to fit a seal knocked out the clutch release bearing hub, from the diff side of the bell housing.( the instructions naming of part or lack instructions other than drift out, are located in clutch chapter, of green manual)
This clutch release bearing hub is the one bolted part, on the shaft in the bell housing , hidden behind the clutch release bearing,

placed in the vice after being removed from bellhousing, gently knocked with a punch, the brass spacer,
the seal is located in front of the spacer, it is very determined to stay. >:(

at present the only way to see seal removal is destroy the seal with a prying tool, this will not be easy.
The seal has leaked so needed replacing. ;D
 Tried a nail through the oil hole. the seal does not protrude enough to use a punch..

photos later

F

« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 07:00:19 PM by fixit »

fixit

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Re: gear box seal replacement but found an issue
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2017, 04:37:37 PM »
Update
The clutch bearing hub seal relented and came out, using a socket gently tapped the new seal home, & replaced the outer seal.

carefully tapped out the outer diff race from the diff hub, found the bearing rollers side of bearing, the puller would not work.
using the poker / nail bar. and a vice managed to prise the bearing off the hub, it was not easy to do, but worked,
using the old bearing race tapped the new race home
used a impact socket same size as the inner, taped the roller side onto its hub.

the next part was to fit the drive shafts back through the diff casing apply the washer and blocks into the cog, fit the small cogs and shaft, remembering to fit the retaining clip and bending the retaining lugs, before sliding on the crown wheel, fitting the other drive shaft through the cog, applying the washer and blocks
the hub is then positioned inline with diff casing, and crown wheel, the bolts were tightened by hand until all mentioned was fully home, to then torque up

all above is fiddly, and a second person does help ;D
 
thanks for reading
F
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 07:05:58 PM by fixit »