Electronic Ä°gnition fit! Works GREAT!

[Bambino126]

So the automatic timing advance is the main benefit of crank sensor ignition over a distributor.

So as I see it Sahins 1st system does away with the points + condenser and the problems that they cause.

His 2nd system goes one stage further by doing away with the distributor altogether therefore getting rid of the centrifugal bob weights which is a crude system anyway and also the vacuum diaphragm which frequently fails.

[Bambino126]

Once the engine has had all the sensors fitted, are we close to seeing the first Bis with Fuel Injection and an ECU?   

[Gadge]

I think it's great work! The points system on mine has let me down no end of times and I even had to stump up £90 for a new distributor altogether so going to contactless ignition or even distributor-less ignition is a great idea and I commend sahins for showing us one that actually works because let's face it we have all seen them advertised and we all think "why can't they do one for my BIS"

Keep up the good work

[Da Londo]

The engine is running very quiete indeed.

[sahin261]

Once the engine has had all the sensors fitted, are we close to seeing the first Bis with Fuel Injection and an ECU?    

You can see something like ECU in this video, 00:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KeTDdgRj6I.
They are modernizng Bis' engines. Maybe They are working on fuel injection and cancelling carburator.  

[drcdb15]

So the automatic timing advance is the main benefit of crank sensor ignition over a distributor.

So as I see it Sahins 1st system does away with the points + condenser and the problems that they cause.

His 2nd system goes one stage further by doing away with the distributor altogether therefore getting rid of the centrifugal bob weights which is a crude system anyway and also the vacuum diaphragm which frequently fails.

Well I did say "am I missing something?", and you are of course correct, I had completely overlooked the timing advance. Now it's about 30 years since I last fitted an electronic ignition kit to a car, but my recollection is that the electronic 'black box' took care of the timing advance. I can't recall if I just took out the points and condenser, or if I also took out the bob weights as well - but I don't recall the electronic system relying on the mechanical bob weights for ignition advance, that would seem to be an obvious further source of mechanical variability. My recollection is that the electronic kit simply used the rotating part of what was left in the distributor as a trigger to indicate engine position, and the electronics worked out the timing, including the advance/retard.

I also recall from my motorcycling days (even *more* than thirty years ago!) that for a twin cylinder air cooled engine (which happened to be a Triumph T100 rather than a Fiat 126) the timing very rapidly got to full advance by about 1000rpm. In other words, variation of the timing was only required for initial starting and at idling. For virtually all normal running it was always at maximum advance - in which case the function of the mechanical bob-weights was anyway very limited.

I don't know if that also holds true for the 126. The Triumph motorcycle engine was iirc based on a 1932 Edward Turner design, so maybe timing theory and practice has moved on a bit since those days 

[drcdb15]

 In other words, variation of the timing was only required for initial starting and at idling. For virtually all normal running it was always at maximum advance - in which case the function of the mechanical bob-weights was anyway very limited.
[/quote]

I think you can see this at about 0:12 in Sahin's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKA1TBSCwmA&feature=youtu.be.

As the throttle is blipped, you can see the plate in the distributor rotate very slightly, maybe 5-10 degrees, but that's it, it is only a small change in timing, and then I would guess it is on full advance and stays there no matter how much faster the engine speed is increased.

I agree that getting rid of the mechanical advance/retard is useful in principle, but I still wonder, given that for most running the advance/retard mechanism is not actually doing anything, it is in effect fixed in the fully advanced position, whether the incremental improvement in performance will actually be noticeable. I think the biggest improvement by far comes from replacing HOW the ignition spark is triggered, rather than WHEN it is triggered.

Nonetheless, as others have said, it seems to be excellent work and is to be welcomed 

As for commercial availability of these systems, is there any comment from our regular parts suppliers ?

[Mics126]

in my opinoin the man reason is reliability, i have made a semi-electronic ignition where it uses the points purely as a signal rarther than putting current through them causing issues (i do know you still get frictional wear but this is minimal) and then the current is generated seperatly therfore you do not realy have dwell issues making sure you have a strong spark all the time (and i have slightly uped the voltage)

[Bambino126]

What system are you using then? Did you buy it or is it home made? How did you up the voltage?

[Mics126]

it is home made.

[Da Londo]

I think this would be the same mod as Jokke described here, http://club126uk.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=7958.60. Without talking about the sensor that is.

[mintex]

.

[Bambino126]

In other words, variation of the timing was only required for initial starting and at idling. For virtually all normal running it was always at maximum advance - in which case the function of the mechanical bob-weights was anyway very limited.

I think you can see this at about 0:12 in Sahin's video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKA1TBSCwmA&feature=youtu.be.

As the throttle is blipped, you can see the plate in the distributor rotate very slightly, maybe 5-10 degrees, but that's it, it is only a small change in timing, and then I would guess it is on full advance and stays there no matter how much faster the engine speed is increased.

I agree that getting rid of the mechanical advance/retard is useful in principle, but I still wonder, given that for most running the advance/retard mechanism is not actually doing anything, it is in effect fixed in the fully advanced position, whether the incremental improvement in performance will actually be noticeable. I think the biggest improvement by far comes from replacing HOW the ignition spark is triggered, rather than WHEN it is triggered.

Nonetheless, as others have said, it seems to be excellent work and is to be welcomed 

As for commercial availability of these systems, is there any comment from our regular parts suppliers ?
[/quote]

Yes for centrifugal advance, but Vacuum advance goes wrong frequently too.
Sahin's system does away with them both. Reliability could be potentially improved.

[mintex]

Forgot to say its a bis dizzy with an AccuSpark kit

[phreak97]

I got an unbranded one off ebay, it worked for six months then I had strange backfires and it eventually stopped completely:(
Learn from my mistake and keep a spare set of points in the car so you can change it back on the side of the road if it fails.. Mine ended up on a tow truck.