Author Topic: Where are all the 500's  (Read 8772 times)

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1973/126

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2015, 10:25:09 AM »
 This is very interesting and nice to see the Barchetta kit will live on again. I read and heard a lot about them and also the poor quality of some other kits that were on the market.
 
 Are the bonnet and engine lid available to by separately and if so what is the price for these?

 I think the biggest problem for most people would be the IVA test and the fact the 126 aren`t cheap or easy to find anymore.  Probably a complete kit with a custom chassis would be the best option.

 I`ve got a spare CCZero chassis, wondering if I could make that work. The wheelbase is slightly longer on the Zero, but not by much.
 
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

Marky

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2015, 10:42:43 AM »
The only way a vehicle will fail an IVA test is if its not road worthy, the lights can not be seen or fails emissions. simple as that. Expensive but simple. Emissions are based on the age of the donor. a donor from 1992 or before will not have an emissions test.

Registration from DVLA is a separate issue and only deals with a vehicles IDENTITY. 

A lot of people confuse the two issues. Please dont.

Q plating is based on DVLA being unable to identify a year of manufacture or a car built from several donors.

If anyone has questions, visit www.595s.org and my number is listed on the contacts page.

Marky ;D
....What if I told you..That the flashing lights on the side of your car.. are to indicate where you want to turn....

poxxxy

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2015, 09:24:06 AM »
Just like to clear things up. As id love away around things myself. But from what I read... the IVA test required varies and the outcome affects registration and identity of the vehicle.  Any modification to original chassis seems to suggest that you won't be able to keep the cars original identity as it will be classed as a radically altered vehicle as to retain its identity/registration the vehicle must score 8 or more points. 5 of which must come from the original monocoque frame/chassis unaltered. Now I think this wasn't the case in previous years if the car was modified before a certain cut off point.

Hence why engine conversions are ok, if they fit without modification to the original frame as you can retain the compulsory 5 points from unmodified chassis minus body/infill panels.

Maybe it's not the case,  but they sure make it sound that way.

And then it ends up being q plated, which is no big deal... its a kit car again :).

Not trying to p*ss on anything here as I love the idea, but could be a gamble as it's down to the IVA tester at the DVLA what he marks down. I guess done right you could pull wool over eyes :).

Thought I'd found a donor earlier but turns out it's already been chopped in half :(.

Again I'd love to be told otherwise with some proof to follow it up as extreme chassis modification would make for some good conversions easily and without such hassle.
My 1991/2 Fiat 126 BIS Restoration: http://club126uk.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8559.90

Marky

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2015, 03:53:28 PM »
Hi Guys. You may find this useful. It applies directly TO AGE RELATED REGISTRATION NUMBERS directly from DVLA.

here is the wording and a direct link to DVLA will be at the bottom.

 Vehicle registration
Overview
New and used vehicles
New registrations
New registrations fee
Rebuilt vehicles
Kit-built vehicles
Kit-converted vehicles
Radically altered vehicles
Old vehicles
Reconstructed classic vehicles
Vehicle identification number
'Q' registration numbers
7. Kit-converted vehicles
Your vehicle must meet the road vehicles regulations if you use it on the road.

A kit-converted vehicle has had:

a kit of new parts added to an existing vehicle, or
old parts added to a new kit
The general appearance of the vehicle will change because of the kit.

How to register
You must follow all the instructions for registering a new vehicle.

You’ll need to include the following with your application:

form V627/1 - ‘Built up vehicle inspection report’
the vehicle registration certificate for the original vehicle
evidence of type approval, if necessary – see ‘Vehicle type approval’ below
official receipts for any parts used
build plans
photographs of the vehicle
Contact DVLA if you’re not sure about what you need to provide.

Send your application to:

K and R
DVLA
SA99 1ZZ

Keep a vehicle’s original registration number
You can apply to keep a kit converted vehicle’s original registration number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with the original unmodified:

chassis (car or light van)
monocoque bodyshell (car or light van)
frame (motorbike)

(THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART)...
Get an age-related registration number
You can apply for an age-related number if you can prove you’ve used 2 original major parts along with:

a new monocoque bodyshell, chassis or frame from a specialist kit manufacturer
an altered chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame from the original vehicle
The registration number will be based on the age of the original vehicle.

Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get an age-related registration number.


Get a Q registration number
DVLA will give your vehicle a ‘Q’ prefix registration number if you don’t meet the conditions for getting an original or age-related registration number.

Your vehicle must pass the relevant type approval test to get a Q registration number.

Vehicles with a Certificate of Destruction (CoD) must never reappear as complete vehicles or be presented for registration, though some components may be recycled. You can’t keep the original registration or vehicle identification number.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconverted-vehicles

As it clearly states, You ARE allowed to use a Modified/altered floorpan or shell as long as the original donor does not have a certificate of destruction on it. The idea here is to obtain an age related plate. This is by far the the most simple method. A cut down reinforced floorpan and 2 major components from the donor is all you need. Along with the LOGBOOK of course!You don't even need to have the original donor MOT'd. Major components are:

(i) chassis,
(ii) body,
(iii) suspension,
(iv) an axle,
(v) transmission, or
(vi) steering assembly.

Most people use the old engine and box and steering assembly. The rest is down to individual preference.

Marky. 
....What if I told you..That the flashing lights on the side of your car.. are to indicate where you want to turn....

Marky

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2015, 04:39:31 PM »
Hi 1973/126. Yes the bonnet and boot lid will be available separately. However, I do not have a price yet. More info on that on Friday.

I'm looking into the new chassis as we speak. I am hoping to have a chassis ready to take bolt on parts over the coming months.

Marky 
....What if I told you..That the flashing lights on the side of your car.. are to indicate where you want to turn....

1973/126

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2015, 07:09:55 PM »
 Marky I`m looking forward to more info and pictures on this and the update on the bonnet and boot lid.
 
 I`ve got this CCZero kit car frame here(based around the 126). If it could help in your chassis design I would be happy to lend it.
 
 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 07:18:33 PM by 1973/126 »
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

poxxxy

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2015, 12:00:21 PM »
Hi Marky, thankyou for clearing this up :).

So going down this route... we can get an age related registration number... but not the original one :). Not a problem I guess! :D.

The CCzero chassis certainly looks like a good starting point... although I don't particularly like all of those square parts of chassis :D. Much prefer an all tubular design!
My 1991/2 Fiat 126 BIS Restoration: http://club126uk.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8559.90

Marky

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2015, 01:11:37 PM »
Hi Guys.

1973/126.... Thank you for the offer of borrowing your chassis. Its very kind of you. Unfortunately it is the wrong shape and looks like it would need extensive modification to fit. The two halves of my shell bonded together does no lend to sides. The only place the upper steel work would be necessary on a new platform is directly behind the seats and front bulk head. This would help support the weight of the shell although my engineer thinks its a good add on it might not be necessary due to the rigidity of the new upper and lower bodies once bonded. The nearest thing I've seen that comes close is the XRL8 chassis that shows the front and rear hoops. It does not need to be engineered to that sort of level for my body. The reason the XLR8 chassis was designed that way is due to the company using a copy upper body and no lower tub or at least only part of it. Hence needing a massively strong frame. If I build a new chassis, it will look similar to the XLR8 but software designed and will be a lot lighter than the XLR8. If I can get the weight down to below 400KG fully built, it will be classed as a heavy quadricycle (L7e) and would not require IVA testing. They are exempt from what I understand. I'm still looking into that though.

I WILL however be building an electric version with a range extender based on the G wiz. Using a new chassis. (Im not keen on the existing G wiz chassis). The total weight of that vehicle without batteries would be less that 350kg. More likely around 300kg or less. Our bodyshell with all panels weighs less than 100kg. The shell lends well to electric as there is room under the bonnet for the range extender (in series hybrid drive) and with the space behind the rear seats (a second boot if you like) more than capable of taking the 6 batteries. 3 on the chassis line and 3 on top. This will aid hadling as most of the weight is mid mounted and all of the weight bar 3 batteries is at chassis level. I will post an image of the XLR8 chassis shortly. I found one on the net.



Poxxxy. Yes, as you say, a reissued reg is no problem.  (I'll post this bit for everyone else's benefit), If your donor registration is for EG: BDH 774Y and this is dissolved by DVLA, you will end up with something like GRT 316Y. Same year, just different letters and numbers. That the long and short of it.

The other point to mention is... and I quote my brother here..."most people turn up to DVLA or the IVA with little or no or even incorrect paper work. That's how things end up on a Q Reg"

Basically, Fill out the correct forms. Especially the one that covers the donor. I posted a link about this yesterday and on that page, it shows the correct form. This is a back door and DVLA do not advertise it. I will post a copy of the form here along with the XLR8 Chassis.

Marky.     
....What if I told you..That the flashing lights on the side of your car.. are to indicate where you want to turn....

Marky

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2015, 01:37:52 PM »
XLR8 link.

http://www.simod.co.uk/xlr8.htm

DVLA form for a BUILT UP VEHICLE.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/built-up-vehicle-inspection-report

Hope this helps. The report only deals with obtaining an age related plate.

The IVA is about a vehicles ability to be roadworthy. A failed IVA test would not get a vehicle Q plated.
It would not go on the road at all!

Paperwork is the key here!

Marky. 
....What if I told you..That the flashing lights on the side of your car.. are to indicate where you want to turn....

1973/126

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2015, 04:03:02 PM »
 Marky no problem and I see where you coming from. That XLR8 chassis looks pretty good and probably a much better alternative than a standard 126 floor-pan. I like the fact that it also uses new components. Some of the 126 parts in rhd form could be fairly tricky to obtain unless you had a donor car. Things like steering racks and pedal box.
 Would there be any other benefits of it being registered as a heavy quadricycle? What would the road tax be like? I think I looked into this before, but I can`t remember.
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

poxxxy

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2015, 07:06:52 PM »
Thanks for the clear up on everything, its certainly a minefield to walk through without the correct information behind you, I'll keep saving pennies for now :).

I don't think i'd be using a Gee whiz for the electric motor though... you can buy real exciting motors/curtis current controllers/battery monitoring systems etc that would make it a real pocket rocket. Decent loading bay for batteries and we get a half decent range possible to! I could make use of that electric car charging point I always see outside Ikea empty lol. With a decent motor and chassis could make something that would wipe the floor with a Tesla S!

Maybe the cutdown 126 is "the" option for now, but a little sacrilege unless the donor was never going to be really restored easily! A well designed space frame chassis would certainly spice things up though! Do you have a 595 in Telford at the moment? I'd like to see it sometime for sure and thats only up the A5 from me a little.

The XLR8 looks like my cup of tea, but roll over protection as they say they'll be adding is a must! Couple of tubes around the headrests should suffice to inspire a little more confidence :D.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 07:08:57 PM by poxxxy »
My 1991/2 Fiat 126 BIS Restoration: http://club126uk.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8559.90

drcdb15

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2015, 10:23:21 PM »
Slightly off-topic, so sorry for that, but since this club is generally focused on keeping older, should I perhaps say "diminutive classics" like the 126 on the road, and since the CC Zero is even more diminutiver and even more rarityfied that the common or garden 126, and since only 21 were made and most of those  seem to be in France, can I make a plea to Ladislav not to butcher the remaining CC Zero chassis but to complete it back to "original" spec (if there is such a concept with a kit car!)?

Perhaps even transplant his Steyr boxer power plant into it ... ?




1973/126

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2015, 08:50:12 AM »
 I think we went off topic here long time ago ;D
 The problem is, out of the three CCZeros I still have only one is properly registered. One frame is completely rotten and the red one has no bodywork. It is also one of the last 2 possibly, so it`s slightly different. Anyway I do have a plan in mind for it at some point in the future.
 BTW to my knowledge it`s 21 made by Car Craft and 2 by Zero engineering.
1972 Fiat 500
1980 Fiat 126

Marky

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2015, 02:29:33 PM »
Hi Guys!
All the new images are now on my website. There are 5 galleries with highly detailed scale-able images.

The new body in depth.
All bolt on panels and seats.
The ORIGINAL blue factory moulds.
A factory built car from 1993 (so I'm told but we didn't build it).
And... a very interesting little fiat 500 from Germany.

www.595s.org

I look forward to hearing your views on the body and quality of the moulds.
Marky   
....What if I told you..That the flashing lights on the side of your car.. are to indicate where you want to turn....

poxxxy

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Re: Where are all the 500's
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2015, 06:59:01 PM »
Enjoyed the look through the pictures there Marky :), that black 595 is certainly a beauty! The mould looks pretty damn good to!
My 1991/2 Fiat 126 BIS Restoration: http://club126uk.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8559.90

 

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